Author Topic: Gipsy Dan Boswell  (Read 49407 times)

Offline panished

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Re: Gipsy Dan Boswell
« Reply #450 on: Saturday 27 January 18 18:06 GMT (UK) »
Hello Everyone

Would it be at all possible if some kind person would please look up on the census records the name of a supposed Lady.... S.A.COTTERILL. She was said to be from around the Selston ways, it is of the most importance. First i would like to explain this research. I am at present attempting to travel back from the year 1873, this as been an hard task, i  acquaint  this to the  so-called, dark ages of Britain, the times after the Romans, yet before the Normans, evan the Angles and Saxons, they say these times are of the savage Vikings, yet now scholars write that the dark age of Britain possess-est day as well as night, much is being found from the research of Scholars of the present day, i to wish to find the truth if indeed there is a time before 1873 regarding the Epitaph and more the life of Daniel Boswell.

There are two main protagonists that at this time i have seen as "persons of interest", one is the eminent Journalist and Author,  Fellow of the Royal Society of Literature, Fellow of the Society of Antiquaries and also Vise- President of the Thornton Society of Nottinghamshire. His name is one Cornelius Brown, he wrote the book "Notes about Notts" " A Collection of Singular Saying, Curious Customs, Eccentric Epitaphs and Interesting Items, Historical and Antiquarian. Edited by Cornelius Brown, Fellow of the Royal Historical Society Nottingham: T. Forman and Sons, Long Row 1874.

http://www.nottshistory.org.uk/Brown1896/brown.htm

If you now re-read my last post you will know that  Cornelius was the Editor of the "Notes and Queries" columns in the Nottinghshire Guardian Newspaper, there he received a letter from a Lady telling of the Inscription Epitaph of Daniel Boswell, the person being S.A.COTTERILL 1873, this then intern found its way into Mr. Browns book, "Notes about Notts", 1874.

If you again re-read my last post you will see in the Bradford Observer Saturday 14 November 1874 under the title "Boswell the Gipsy King", ............ below are the words.

" The remarks in your issue of June 13 remind me that in Selstone Churchyard, Notts, the remains of Dan Boswell, the head of a well known gang of gipsies are interred. His epitaph runs as follows:-

"  I've lodged in many a town,
i have traveled many a year,
but death at length hath brought me down,
To my last lodgings here". W.A.

  I think you may agree that "W.A." may well have obtained his knowledge from either the Book above or evan from the letter sent to the Nottinghamshire Gardian 1873, this below is the writing in the book.

"Selstone Church yard is the burial place of Old Dan Boswell, the head of a well known gang of gipsies, who were frequently in the neighborhood. A lady tells us. She can remember the tribe encamping on the common, and also the marriage of one of his daughters in true gipsy fashion on the occasion of one of their visits, when her father the king of the gipsies, presented her with a quarten measure of either sovereigns or guineas as a marriage dowry".
The epitaph is as follows:

"   I've lodged in many a town,
  I've traveled many a year,
but death at length hath brought me down,
to my last lodging here".

I have a strong suspicion that W.A is the one and only William Andrews, Fellow of the Royal History Society, Secretary of the Hull Literary Club, Chief Librarian of the Hull Subscription Library, Honory Secretary of the press Postal League, and amongst other things "Member of the Derbyshire Archaelogical and Natural History Society".
He is a most prolific writer.

http://onlinebooks.library.upenn.edu/webbin/book/lookupname?key=Andrews%2C%20William%2C%201848-1908

I will show everyone in my next post, more perceived evidence of how i think these two great Writers link up in the story of the Epitaph, but first if someone would help in tracing S.A. COTTERILL, we must confirm the letter as genuine, does a S.A. COTTERILL exist from 1873 around  Selston Nottinghamshire.

ps. remember if you are able to help, first you must know that S.A.COTTERILL may be the Ladys  married name, and She may be writing about Selston of the times of when She was young, and Her maiden name is unknown, plus She may now be living in a different location, wow, Genealogy is not an easy task..... Good Luck, if there is no reply i will keep on trying

pps.... Dont forget in the pagers of the Derbyshire Times on 7th June 1873: W. A. was the first person......... "as of yet", who started all the talk of an Epitaph, he claimed then to be seeking it, on 14 November 1874 after S.A.COTTERILLS letter and the writings in the book he then spoke of the Epitaph in the Bradford Observer with the "Hath" wrote into the words, yet in the Derbyshire Times, on Saturday 27 June 1874, the writer said he was replying to a Mr. Andrews from 7th June 1873, yet the letter he was replying to was signed W.A. yet he referred to the writer as Mr. Andrews. there was also the letter in the same columns with the inscription  "tis true ", wrote 25 April 1874, signed S.L. It is possible that the writer referring to a Mr. Andrews on 27 June 1874, , was  referring to S.L. which would place S.L. as Andrews. In the present day on the Gypsy Genealogy web site of this very month it mentions Daniel Boswell, read the link below and learn all about His life plus check the dates against the dates i have researched...Its a very good website.
http://www.gypsygenealogy.com/showarticle.php?article_id=277 

michael

Offline panished

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Re: Gipsy Dan Boswell
« Reply #451 on: Sunday 28 January 18 07:34 GMT (UK) »
Hi Everyone

Lets just say W.A. or William Andrews was just a local person replying to is local paper in the notes and queries columns, nothing at all strange about that, yet i have found many letters sent into the papers of Nottinghamshire , Derbyshire, and Yorkshire, all with the Name William Andrews or W.A. it is of my opinion that William Andrews of Hull as the mind of a Great Collector, a colossus of a Writer. In the Nottinghamshire Guardian 28 November 1873 Cornelius Brown being the stated Editor of the columns of the "notes and queries" spoke these words in written form about a man he had knowledge of.

Popular Antiguities_Mr. William Andrews Hull, a contributor to this column and to various publications, was preparing a miscellany of popular antiquities of Yorkshire, under the title of the Yorkshire Garland. As Mr. Andrews as long been an active worker in rescuing from oblivion customs of bygone days, and thoes which are rapidly dying out, we have no doubt that he would do justice to the work which he has undertaken. We trust that any of our contributors who have any notices likely to be of service to Mr. Andrews, will communicate them to him at 14 Spring Bank Hull, and we have no doubt he will acknowledge any assistance in his forth coming volume.

I could write up many many letters of William Andrews and also W.A regarding many subjects in the notes and queries columns in several County Shires. I do not think i have to go on to much about that, yet it is strange how he never puts Dan Boswell's Epitaph in his book, he wrote in the Deryshire Times on the same day as the reports i write of, he talked much, and often asked many questions regarding Epitaphs in several papers, the writings are all there in the papers for future researches to locate, he was only at the start of his long career as an author way back in the time of the letters, he was but a young man, plus i think he liked to see the inscription with his own eyes, if i remember right he was evan wrote about in one paper as being in London to eye witness an Epitaph of interest, this story also could go in several directions, i may to, be making mistakes, this is the book below without the Epitaph.

Curious Epitaphs Collected from the Graveyards of Britain and Ireland, with Biographical, Genealogical, and Historical Notes.
by William Andrews F.R.H.S Member of the Derbyshire Achaelogical and Natral History Society.
Secretary of the Hull Literary Club.
Local Secretary of the National Society for the Preserving the Memorials of the Dead.
Author of " Historic Romance",
" Punishments in Older Times",
" Book of Oddities",
" Histories of the Dunmow Flitch",
etc.

Mr. Andrews then writes in his book a dedication to the Duke of Devonshire, he signs this with the title W.A.
He also signs his Name on another page as William Andrews October 1 1883.

This below is the full letter from S.A.COTTERRILL, Nottinghamshire Guardian Notes and Queries, Friday 1 August 1873.

Dan Boswell- In a recent impression of the Guardian, i saw an item on Old Dan Boswell, and the writer it would appear would like the Epitaph. I being born and brought up not far from Selstone- indeed i can see the old hall from where i live- have been quite familiar with it all my life. My Mother as told us She can remember the Tribe encamping on the common, and also the marriage of one of his Daughters in true gipsy fashion on the occasion of one of their vissits, when Her Father, the king of the gipsies, presented Her with a quarten of sovereigns or guineas, i have forgoten which, as a marriage dowry.I thought i would send the Epitaph, if it would be any pleasure for your correspondent to know it. S.A.COTTERILL.

[ Replies have been received from " R.K.," and also from another correspondent who emitted to sign his name."R.K. adds that none of the Boswells prosterity are in the Selston Parish_ED.]

I have not been able to trace the recent impression that S.A.COTTERILL was referring to, also i now see through re-reading these words She speaks of still being in seeing distance of the old hall, so She must be in the Census from Selston in the times we are talking about. i will next put on the full letters in order of the Derbyshire Times that i write of in the previous post, if nothing comes of this i will move on to try and adapt this research, i will be looking for the Older Camp Sites around Nottingham, you never know, i find if you locate something that to some meens nothing well something then comes of nothing.

Leahcim

ps I await all and any reply's with the utmost gratitude, especially correction in any form, that would be most welcome for i feel shamed when i know i get things wrong or tangled around my neck... i thank you in-advance.
 

pps Cornelius Brown wrote of Dan Boswell in his Epitaph book yet William Andrews in his own Epitaph book did not, W.A. would not let a single fact go astray, he new of all the talk of Daniel Boswell from the Seventy's, why would he miss him out, there are two letters of these times reguarding an eye witness account of the Inscription, the one above from  S.A.COTTERRILL, Nottinghamshire Guardian Notes and Queries, Friday 1 August 1873, with the word"hath" wrote, and the one from The Derbyshire Times, Sunday April 25 1874 with the words "tis true " wrote, they both cannot be right, i will put the full letter up of 25 April 1874  next.

Offline panished

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Re: Gipsy Dan Boswell
« Reply #452 on: Sunday 12 August 18 19:10 BST (UK) »
Hi everyone

is there anyone who could confirm that these Cotterills below who are in the reports from Selston St Marys in the years that lead up to the times of the letters to the papers, also i have read Daniel Boswells first name as in Daniel was never passed down, if there is other Boswells in future yeares after the times of Selston maybe their names and storys could be worked backwards to try and find more information, so i put a few names up i found, if in any way anybody knows of any link back to Nottinghamshire i would thank you for your welcome advice,

 I have to try several ways to try and go back further than 1873, it may evan be true that in the begining there never was an Epitaph, if there was one, well, someone is telling big lies as i have shown through the "two" main Epitaphs, both can not be true, this is why i must confirm the Cotterills as genuine, W.A may well be William Andrews, William Andrews may well be "Juba 2" the famouse writer who along with William Andrews and W.A. are to be found in the same Notes and Queries collunms that i am researching, Juba was the name of a Free Man of great ability, did you know he was born in America and fused African dance with that of the Irish fiddle jig dancing, it is said all modern types of tap dancing derive its origen from the Man known as Juba, it is wrote that he joined the Black and White Minstrels troupe of Dancers who were White men who had their faces blackend to look like Black men, becourse he was the greatest Dancer on earth they wanted him to jion their dancing troupe, but they made him first put makeup on to look like a White Man then put makeup on to make him look like a White Man trying to look like a Black Man, Juba came over to England and travelled much, he danced around this Country and was known in the local papers, he died in London in the 1850s, i am honestly just guessing, was W.A also "Juba2" also William Andrews, did W.A, who like the real Juba, change is face as in name, to find the answers in the struggles they both encounted in their own endeavors, we will see. http://masterjuba.com/
 
 
Selston St. Helen's Marriage Register 1557 -1846   
 
1812 Dec 30 SWINDEL Thomas COTTRILL Mary
 1813 Feb 8 COTTRELL William HALLSWORTH Sarah
  1832 Jan 1 COOKE John COTTERILL Mary     
1833 Nov 17 ALLCOCK John COTTRILL Mary
1844 Dec 10 BOOTH William COTTERILL Elizabeth
1846 Jul 12 BREEDON Samuel COTTERILL Elizabeth

When you first read this report below you may instantly think Dan Boswell could well be a Gipsy, yet on reading what the Constable went on to say, well I think the jury is still out; so now this is the time when you need the acquired skill to navigate the appropriate census reports to conclude your assumptions

Dudley Mercury, Stourbridge, Brierley Hill and County Express
Saturday 27 April 1889 Extract
Daniel Boswell of Cherry Tree Orchard, Old Hill, was charged with being drunk in charge of an horse and cart……..Police Constable Styles spoke of seeing the defendant drunk in his masters cart.

In the story below you would be also right to be cautious

Wells Journal
Thursday 24 December 1908
Somerset Extract
Daniel Boswell of Radstock summoned for allowing his horse to stray

Truthfully I left one word out deliberately to show you many times there is more information that is left out in quotes or extracts, they state in the record Dan Boswell is a Gipsy.

In the record below you again could fall for an honest assessment and think that of course this Dan Boswell is a Gipsy, once again consult the census records, or ask for help.
Bedfordshire Mercury
Saturday 4 February 1871

Daniel Boswell up for poaching.

On this record below you have to be very careful and you must try and learn the full bigger picture, there is a good chance that this Dan Boswell is from the Gipsies, in extracts so much information is left out, below see how it says Latymer Road Notting Hill, I am sure that is an area where Gipsies lived back in the times of this stated report, by using knowledge from previous research you may also think to that you would be right to have an honest Guess at this one, evan if this Dan Boswell turns out to be not from the Gipsies don’t worry for an honest guess is a true guess.

West London Observer
Saturday 1 December 1855 Extract
In the report it goes on to talk of two Tinker Brothers of Latymer Road Notting Hill, who are on their way home and singing some old tune to themselves, a gang of Irish labourers on hearing the happy Brothers now call them insulting names, the Boswells rise to the challenge and confront the mob, saying they could do the Irish, but alas the Irish gang attack them with many weapons and they end up getting a bit of a kicking, it would of been best for them to have just gone home, but when you’re up for it your up for it, fair play it sounds like they had a good go, their names were James Boswell and Daniel Leary Boswell.
     
There is a Daniel Boswell and a Adam Small plus James Deary up for being Disorderly, this is in the Norwich Mercury Saturday 27 October 1832
You again would be right to link the Small name and Boswell name as of the Gipsies, but I think this is only about a ninety to ten chance and evan less than that, this is what you would be right to call a long shot.