Author Topic: Gipsy Dan Boswell  (Read 162058 times)

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Re: Gipsy Dan Boswell
« Reply #468 on: Saturday 12 November 22 16:55 GMT (UK) »
I understand that Don,

 Thank you for taking the time to put that together, it must of been many years of research, i totally get it what you are saying, Ancestry keeps updating my DNA they to try and write in a way that makes you read and take in the knowledge that their scientists in genealogy have come to learn, they tell of how we are 50% DNA from your Father and 50% from your Mother in past down DNA they try hard to tell you why some people have difference's in their results, one brother could show south Asian DNA ethnicity while another brother does not, this is because the 50% that they each got from say their Romany mother contained different parts of her 100% that she inherited from her parents, ancestry say in DNA you can only be 50% of each parent yet your 50%  from your father could be from a different grandparent, than what your brother inherited, this makes sense also, if you think about it if you only get 50% DNA from both of your parents there is 100% of DNA missing i think shared DNA being passed down changers because nature deems it that way for reasons of survival, you are who you are from say several generations back then as other relatives join you become a part of their DNA, this is who you are in today's world you can never carry all the DNA of all the many thousands of ancestor because you would have seven heads and three legs, the Haplogroup  will never change and it will tell you where your far ancestor came from but who you are in this day is the shared DNA from your last maybe four generations or so, like you say through shared DNA you will miss the 50% that was never passed down yet your Haplogroup groupings will still stay the same then like you have just wrote you will see a far cousin with a name like Locke because you share the same unchanged Y H, it's great to learn things Don, thank you again, you may not like the thought Don but you are famous, and you may not write books or be wanted to be known, but again you will be wrote of in books, well done.

  Don you have helped me understand what Ancestry have been saying when they put up more search results i am sure there is more to learn.

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Re: Gipsy Dan Boswell
« Reply #469 on: Sunday 13 November 22 18:57 GMT (UK) »
 
    Don, it just happened again, Ancestry have just sent me the information of a new cousin, i have many East European Gipses in my family of DNA, now another cousin in DNA matches to me, and he has the DNA of the cold lands plus the Indian ethnicity, this time some big names from the British and American Gipses of old join this cluster, often only a few connect up to the people with European-Indian DNA ancestry, some of whom state openly their Gipsy status some give nothing away yet let you see their ethnicity.
 
These below are my DNA cousins who match along with me to A123. they all have the Indian ethnicity in their own DNA. in a range of 1% to 16% with many showing all the connecting countries plus some with the South Asian Iran Persia trace DNA, they are a mix of Americans and British nationalities and have very illustrious family trees.  All in the 4th – 6th Cousin range, A123. is in the 5th – 8th Cousin range.

J.S. comes out of Nalor Lovells lot. 
S.S. managed by the Buckland's below 
Buckland
Buckland
Stanley
Stanley
Davies
Lovell
Smith
Boswell
Lee
Lee
Phillips.....as a complete ethnicity land bridge from India to England
Wharton
Gray
J.B. Managed by Worden-Wharton
Boswell
Love
 
and several more cousins of high regard.
 
Ethnicity Estimates

A123.

Ireland 0%
England & Northwestern Europe 0%
Scotland 0%
Wales 0%
Northern India 30%
Norway 29%
Aegean Islands 8%
Finland 6%
Germanic Europe 5%
Sweden & Denmark 5%
Cyprus 4%
Eastern Europe & Russia 3%
Anatolia & the Caucasus 3%
Levant 3%
Southern Italy 2%
Greece & Albania 1%
The Balkans 1%

 Wow if this carries on old George Borrow will be coming to see me with some tobacco to get me talking, mind you i do not smoke but if he brings some stella i will sing like a song thrush, i better tell the wife to look out for Ian Hancock sure they will all want to know me now    ???

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Re: Gipsy Dan Boswell
« Reply #470 on: Wednesday 16 November 22 09:28 GMT (UK) »
If you haven't transferred your Ancestry DNA test over to Family Tree DNA, that might a good idea, to give you another database of different DNA participants to compare to, which is free to do.

Of the surnames you mentioned, some of the Romany DNA participants of those surnames have also Y DNA tested with FTDNA, and some have also autosomal DNA tested as well.

Never hurts to have your autosomal test results in more then one DNA database, to give you more people to compare to.

 Not directed just for you, but for all autosomal DNA participants whom have tested with Ancestry DNA, 23&M3 DNA, My Heritage DNA, you can download your autosomal test results from the DNA company you tested with of the three I just mentioned, and upload your autosomal file to Family Tree DNA for free, whom is one of the oldest genetic genealogy DNA companies there is.

Just something to consider doing because it is free to do.

Me personally and this is just me, I am less interested in population / admixture reports, and more interested in whom we are a genetic match with, because it is those whom we are a genetic match with, proves we have a genetic kinship with that participant somewhere in our family tree. :)

No telling whom you might be an autosomal match with on the FTDNA database. As i have mentioned before, there are around 30 Romany from across Europe of around 30 plus surnames whom have Y DNA tested positive for Y Haplogroup H-M82*, some of whom have also done the Family Finder autosomal DNA test. And that is just the males that I know about, there has to be many females autosomal tested as well with FTDNA that I don't know about.

I am an autosomal DNA match with one of the Smith and Ingram Y DNA participants, so I am not just a Y DNA match with Smith and Ingram, I am also an autosomal DNA match to those same two participants. I know how I am related to the Ingram family, it is a pretty old kinship dating back to the mid 1700's era, which makes my autosomal DNA match to the Ingram Y DNA participants all the more interesting to me because it is such a distantly related kinship, I don't know how I am related to the Smith Family, yet.

One of the Smith Y DNA participants whom has also done the autosomal test, I see he has autosomal matches to some surnames of interest. he is a match to the following:
Worton, Herrin, Bryer, Stanley, Jackson / Boswell, Smith, Burton, Joles, Locke to name a few of his Romany autosomal matches, that is by no means all of his matches.
Lock / Locke unofficial single surname study.

Admin. of the Locke Y DNA project which includes the Lock surname.
Admin. of the Lock / Locke Genealogy & DNA facebook page.

Y DNA participant of Group 2 in the Locke DNA project.
Y Haplogroup H- M82 ( H-BY67262 )

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Re: Gipsy Dan Boswell
« Reply #471 on: Wednesday 16 November 22 15:57 GMT (UK) »
Hi Don
         Great post that, brilliant, i took a lot away from it, my Son sent me the My Heritage DNA pack for a birthday or something, i never really got on with it, i got the Ancestry one from my Daughter i think for a similar reason the Ancestry one i find is amazing, it's so easy to navigate i am not bringing the Heritage one down its just i got the Ancestry package first and took to that, i do find the idea of having the Family Tree DNA pack a good thought, i would really like to do that i will see if i can do it, if not i will just pay for another test. 

That was another good informative post you just wrote i do find your writings interesting and of knowledge that helps rather than confuse, i really do understand what you are saying about being related to someone by genetic kinship, i know a cousin is a cousin is a cousin but that will at most parts be as much sideways as backways, you by looking at the Haplogroup are seeking that straight line, i find that way of researching very true and a honest endeavor you must keep going and learn more discoveries, i try and think though that in life we have all in some way have been imprinted on, we only know and understand the universe from the teachings that have been relayed to us, why is one and then two that then goes on to become three, why do we think that statement is right, why do we think a straight line is the line of truth in who we are or come from, if you go back to the Indian lands in say the year 1100 and meet the Ancestor with the Haplogroup sure wouldn't he have just been a person of mixed DNA i try hard to think of the truth and i think we in life are brainwashed at times in everything by governments and organizations that just want us to think a certain way, how do we know really where life comes from, i know we are supposed to come from cells that evolved out of the dying of stars you know the table of elements basically remnant dust particles that formed into planets over millions of years then water being the holder of life formed cells in a primitive way, down the line animals came and we as several types of humans had our family tree back to the ape like peoples, but when did the Haplogroups start, surely it did not start in India, i am sure everyone on the planet today is only here because of shared DNA i think the scientists will find that a person can trace their lineage back in several ways not just a straight line, i know that may sound strange but i think more will come as truths in the future, i do believe as the Haplogroups as real and true and by researching that avenue what you seek you will find, well Done Don i think you have worked extremely hard.

I think you may be related to the Smiths from the Gloucester way i have been looking at all my DNA cousins who have Locke's in their tree and Vince who said he had your kind of Haplogroup comes out of them Smith Locke's to round that way, i listened to him years ago talking about certain family's, he had a massive Romany Gipsy heritage, you mentioned about the Locke's and Boswells some old names of the past well i see the connections in my DNA cousins writings on Ancestry, they have names like Davies Stevenson Smith and married out names but you see how the Locke's are there in the same family line as the Smiths, i will see what i find and get back to you.


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Re: Gipsy Dan Boswell
« Reply #472 on: Thursday 17 November 22 16:56 GMT (UK) »
If I have in any way helped and not confused you, then that makes me happy. I never want to confuse people.

I don't have all the answers, I wish I did! lol.
Lock / Locke unofficial single surname study.

Admin. of the Locke Y DNA project which includes the Lock surname.
Admin. of the Lock / Locke Genealogy & DNA facebook page.

Y DNA participant of Group 2 in the Locke DNA project.
Y Haplogroup H- M82 ( H-BY67262 )

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Re: Gipsy Dan Boswell
« Reply #473 on: Saturday 19 November 22 18:26 GMT (UK) »
 
Don

 It just happened again, Ancestry sent me a new cousin with the name in the link below, i know it's not the person in the link for he as passed away R.I.P. my DNA match as the same full name though bar the Jos, i wonder if he is related to the Man in the link, i searched the name out on-line. My DNA match has the Indian ethnicity yet no British or Western European DNA, i have seen in family's Violin players from Europe who are Gipsy's yet i share far DNA with their families, in Wales i have shared DNA with a Male known as Wood-Davies that had relatives who played the Harp plus i have DNA matches to the Evans who have the Roberts in their line i think they played the Harp to, such things i find interesting.   

https://secondhandsongs.com/artist/113141... this is the link to a Gipsy man who as the same name as my new DNA match they may be related. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTFt_5CjkYs&t=143s this is one of his songs, he has gone to the world now but i put up his song out of respect for him, they say he is from the Gipsy's, well my match as the same name as him and the Indian DNA, i am just respecting all Gipsy peoples with this link whether i am right or wrong, but they would know that anyway.... Leahcim.

These below are some of my DNA Cousins who also along with me match to the name in the link above the name in this link may not be the person who matches to me it's just it's the same name so i put it on just in case it's a related name, all these below have the Indian ethnicity to some degree they are in the 4th to 6th Cousin range the DNA match above as in name goes up to the 8th Cousin range, there will be more Cousin matches that link up at the 6th to 8th range but Ancestry only show shared linking Cousins up till the 6th range.
 
Stanley.... Male, this Stanley only gives his Indian ethnicity and fine land bridge away and matches to 105 people who share DNA with the both of us, all of them have a percentage of Gipsy ancestry in their history plus a high amount of them have the Indian ethnicity in their DNA  plus the connecting lands that the Gipsy's travelled through in the timescale that the scholars have wrote of, all these peoples form into clusters that then interlink with my other DNA matches who like them share the same kind of DNA that i have just wrote of above, you will see how some of them link more often through shared DNA with many clusters, there must be more to because i only keep a record of the DNA matches that link up in clusters.
 
Byrne…. from Coseley, Staffordshire, England, this is yours and Vince's lot, massive amount of the Davies that connect to your lot the Locke's and Smiths, both the Locke's and Smith go back to the 1600s in this lady's records.
 
A.L... 104 shared Gipsy DNA matches with me Managed by Anderson, when i say Gipsy i mean people with known Gipsy's in their family tree some or most will now be out of their Gipsy family and through reading what some say or who they focus on in photos well i think some do not have much of a understanding about their Gipsy ancestry yet they still carry the DNA. In their paper trail through the census reports that forms their family tree you see how they come out of the Gipsy's of old, others it is plain to see know and are very proud of who they descend from.
 
Anderson…  this one and the one above gives nothing away but share 84 DNA matches with me.
 
Pearce... American with Stanley Lee all in the close history, massive Gipsy ancestry ...that then goes back to Gipsy's like Edward Boswell 1776–1851 in his amazing family tree it's like reading the history of the history of the British Gipsie's that went from these lands to America. R.I.P.
 
Jeffery....  Female gives nothing away but is in a cluster of 79 other people with Gipsy ancestry.
 
George....  Male from Atlanta, Fulton, Georgia, USA from the Stanley Smalls Harrisons with names that go back to James (**) Small (c1736) R.I.P.
 
Pearce.... Male, American. Coopers Lee Jeffery's Fisher... going back to Magnolia Palmer, Maranda Lock 1848–Robert Lock 1814– Myrtle Smith Lee, 1900–Woodvine Smith, Shadrack Boswell
1735– Mathias Cooper1849–and many more of high regard. R.I.P

Lee... Female from the Wales lot the Lees and Jones....Freddy Lee 1911– R.I.P.

Lee. Female born and bred from the Wales lot, Elizabeth Lee 1905–1990 Harold Lee 1946–2009 Henry Lee 1904–1984 Molly Lee 1943–2010 Silas Toby Lee 1914–1973 samson Lee 1919–1998 Agnes Mochan 1919–1996 Eva Hearne 1921–2004 Geraldina Price 1942–2012 Charles Henry price 1910– Elizabeth Ann Edwards 1911. R.I.P.

Sammy... Female. American, directly out of the Smith Cooper then Joles plus Florence (Fince )
Harrison 1882–1976. R.I.P.
 
Phillips... Female. she shares with me over 120 Gipsy matches but gives nothing away.
 
J.B. Managed by worden Wharton's American.
 
Buckley.. comes out of John Buckley 1945–2001 Biggleswade, Bedfordshire, England. R.I.P.

There are several more DNA Cousin matches but they do not give much away.

Don i am looking into the connections with Vince's lot, you already know everything no doubt but i am trying to find things, no need to answer this post i will get back to you soon. 

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Re: Gipsy Dan Boswell
« Reply #474 on: Monday 12 December 22 19:20 GMT (UK) »
 Hi Don

I will write up tomorrow a few more things that i have found. 

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Re: Gipsy Dan Boswell
« Reply #475 on: Wednesday 14 December 22 14:51 GMT (UK) »
Hi Don
   I have many D.N.A matches to the Gloucestershire way you know the Smiths Stevens Davies they are linked with the Locke's Locks, I am just looking though for anything that may trigger an hidden meaning, one of the male Smiths who i cousin D.N.A match to and goes by the name of H. Smith shares 74 D.N.A. matches with me who are all from people with known Gipsy ancestry me and this Smith male both match to people from America. On Ancestry D.N.A it is stated that they come down a line of locks, the locks start of in Wales at the turn of the 1800s and end up in California.

These are the locks

William Edward Lock 1931–1974 Eben Loyd Lock 1894–1948 Ebenezer (Eben-Edward) Lock 1850–1935 Zacharia Lock 1827–1887

I read this piece below on-line -Born in Wales on abt 1827 to Henry Lock and Elizabeth F Lock. Zacharia Lock married Elizabeth O'Connor and had 3 children. He passed away on 25 Sep 1887 in Oakland, Alameda, California, USA.
 
I am through D.N.A related to three people from America who come down through this line of Locks both on the male line and the female line plus the Indian ethnicity still is showing up in two of the them through their own personal D.N.A, true they may have got there Gipsy D.N.A from someone else in Wales like a Lee from the 1700s or evan someone from America, i am just trying to find clues, this is the important bit they all share D.N.A with me and many other people with Gipsy ancestry there is not one link between us that contains a person who is not in a D.N.A Gipsy cluster and of great value is the fact that through D.N.A they relink to each other this I think isolates by a good percent the Lock name as the binding reason for the reason of their D.N.A  cluster link combining this with their D.N.A linking with the Gloucestershire Smiths as noted above i think they are worth looking into, i just think of your original question about Richard so i look for anything that may contain clues I have been reading the older posts on roots chat and I see you and Vince are well acquainted, these below are a few of the names in the male Smith mans line who I started this post with, he links to me and the American Locks he links twice and I three times this will only be through our own personal D.N.A

 Abraham (Bummie) Smith 1876–Aaron Smith 1788–1859 Merrick Lock 1782–1861 James Smith 1813–1876 Sarah Locke 1811–1888 Abraham Mustoe 1809–1869 Jane Mustoe 1840–Thomas Mustoe 1779–1847 Eleanor Stevens 1817–1891 Robert Stevens 1783–1849 Absalom Smith 1768–1826 Archeleus Smith 1829–Arthur Smith 1777–1822 Cinderella Smith 1845–Elizabeth Smith1735–Elsie Smith Gilroy (Sonner) Smith 1900–1995 Henry Smith 1943–Isabella Smith 1874–1966 Lavinia T Smith 1795–Louisa Smith 1808–1872 Mark Smith 1800–1869 Neptune Smith 1775–1855 Sampson Smith 1841–
 
 these are the posts on roots chat that made me know not to write up everything, i wonder what Vince would think of my many D.N.A matches. 
 
 Extracts

Travelling People / Re: Stevens - Loveridge
on: Monday 02 April 12 
 
 My x2 Grt Grandad, was Guilroy Smith, brother of the preacher Reuben Smith.  Guilroy was married to Eve Stevens, who was in turn the daughter of Manny Stevens and Eve Lock.
The Stevens, Locks and Smiths married into each other a lot, often first cousins, and usually several siblings from one family would marry several siblings from another family.
all that I have learned.....Romany Jib team, Don Lock and Eric Trudgill.
 
Vince.
 
Re: Nellie Davis
 on: Sunday 15 January 12 

Thanks to Eric trudgill's piece on Merrick Lock, ( our ancestor), I know now that Annie Davies, was infact Sarah Anne Davies, and that Natty and guilroy were brothers.
the Smiths, Davies and Locks, appear to have been so intermarried, that anyone researching these clans in Glos. would need to consider that the names can end up being interchangeable.

Re: Stevens
on: Thursday 15 September 11

on the Traveller board, you'll see contact info for Don Lock.  If not I'll pm his contact.
 My ancestor, was Eve Stevens, daughter of Manny Stevens and Eve Lock.  She married my grt grt Grandfather, Guilroy Smith. Scources: Don Lock and Sue Day

Travelling People / Re: Gyspy Surname
on: Saturday 26 September 09

I did a test with don Lock's project and one of the great surprises is the amount of people who carry the Gypsy gene and don't know it.  It is rarer on the female side (up to yet) because gypsy men have always married out.  I was somewhat surprised to find that my smith line went back to India.  Had I done the female line,
I now get e-mails from people all over the world desperate for an explanation as to why they have an Indian root when they only have European ancestry in living memory.  Just shows how many got deported.
 


Don i will go back through all my D.N.A matches and find all the old Lock Locke names within them and just write the names and dates down here, if then you would like me to write to any of them i will email them with your contact details. 

Also i just found this....Memberency Rememberence Boswell 1779–1869 she is an ancestor of another one of my D.N.A cousin matches with Matthew Locke 1785–1871 and Devit Margaret Boswell Smith 1753–1841 Horsforth, St Margaret, Yorkshire in the same tree but guess what, this cousin match is also matched along with me to the descendant's of Zacharia Lock 1827–1887. We all link up through the cousin sequence in another cluster.

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Re: Gipsy Dan Boswell
« Reply #476 on: Thursday 15 December 22 17:16 GMT (UK) »
Hi Don
   Like i told you i will write down all the Lock Locke names that are contained within all my D.N.A.
 cousin match's trees, i will only be able to show you what they show me, if you are interested i will give them your contact details, what you ask of them will be up to you so if anything i write rings a bell just say which D.N.A match is of interest you never know something may lead you back to Richard, i will only put a few names on that i think may help you to form a bigger picture there will be no need for you to answer any of these posts when i am done i will just leave things there and no doubt we will not speak again, good luck with your research, if by chance you are not interested in such things just say nothing, i am sure that these writings of mine will be of help to others. I will be leaving the country for a few weeks soon, i will continue posting on my return i will say at the end when i am finished.

This below will be D.N.A. match no. 3. from England. no. 1. will be on the previous post about H. Smith the male from the Gloucestershire lot. no. 2 will be the three Locks descended from Zacharia Lock from Wales who died in America but comes out of Henry Lock stated as being from England.

D.N.A. match no. 3. Female Born and bred a Davies from both sides a very impressive family tree we share 41 D.N.A. matches all Gipsy descendants including Davies and Smiths below names of interest that may be of interest.

George Davis 1755–Thomas Smith 1727–1838 Mary m Lock / Locke 1685–1745 Sarah Hannah Taylor Smith 1729–1834 Jeremiah / Jerry Davis 1804–1863 Aaron Smith 1788–1859 James Smith 1813–1876 Edmond V. Lock 1653–1728 Elizabeth Lock 1754–1797 George Lock / Locke 1754–1814
Elizabeth Stevens 1758–James Stevens 1730–1796 John Stevens 1688–1768 John Locke 1686–1731 Eve Lock 1804–1885 Corneilius Stephens 1871–1928 Sarah Anne Stephens 1917–1999 Thomas Stephens 1831–1881 George Lock 1724–1764 Abraham Smith 1680–1747 Comfort Smith 1775–1870 Isaac Smith 1712–James Smith 1735–1830 James Smith 1767–1830 James Smith 1813–1876
James "Gemmy The Gypsy" Smith 1767–1830 Jasper Smith 1749–1838 Jemima Smith 1747–1803
John Smith 1690–1761 John Smith 1723–1785 John Smith 1727–1785 Nathaniel Smith 1843–1921
Nathaniel Smith 1844–1921 Susanna Smith Thomas Smith  1692–1759 William Smith 1704–1766
Aaron 1 Legged Smith 1788–1859 Thomas Smith 1686–1759 Cinnamenta smith 1880–1965 Austin Davis1762–1835Ben Davis 1700–George Davis 1720–Jane Davis Jeremiah / Jerry Davis 1804–1863 John Davis Sarah Davis 1806–Thomas Davis 1739–1824 Mizzeley Davis
1907–1994 Merrick Lock 1782–1861 Sarah Lock 1811–1888 William Davis 1772–Sarah Ann Davis
1850–Thomas Davies 1791–Sarah Lock Smith 1811–1888 ? Davies 1740–Ann Davies 1817–1885
Benjamin Davies 1774–1874 Cornelius Davies 1879–1946 Cornelius james Davies 1908–1984 David Davies 1791–1868 Edith Davies 1889–1953 Edward Davies 1780–1860 James Davies 1790–1851
James Davies 1841–James Davies 1848–1932 James Alexander Gill Davies 1856–1935 John Davies
1809–1894 John Davies 1833–1898 Mary Davies 1809–1882 Sarah Davies Sarah Anne Davies 1840–Shirley Pearl Davies 1938–1999 Thomas Davies 1811–1888 William Davies 1800–1905 William H Davies 1884–1962 Wisdom Davies 1909–1976 Wisdom Davies 1938–2020 wisdom Davie's
1893–1965.

And look at these two i have been researching the Smiths and camping grounds in my own place of Nottingham then would you believe it these two just come along who are in my D.N.A. cousin match's family tree, and Bullwell is right next to Hucknall where the Derbyshire Boswells stayed Linda's lot. The Smiths i am sure are woven into my Mothers D.N.A. going back to times unknown, the bigger picture is there for all, maybe its not even hidden just like Dan Boswells old gravestone its right under your feet said the old Church helper who showed me the spot where he buried the remaining fragment that was left from the stone first erected many years before, then through me reading vast amounts of what could be said of as endless boring information i found that in 1963-64 the Church burial ground was littered with old broken gravestones so the people of this time connected to the Church used the old toppled gravestones to form walkways around the Churchyard, so Dan Boswell the Gipsy of long years still has all his gravestone in the the Church ground and both bits are under your feet, one day someone may dig up a path and find the true Epitaph when they combine the broken gravestones from the walkway and the buried one that lays buried just Infront of the the new erected stone from the 70s, also the Church helper told me the new gravestone is facing the wrong way, Dan was actually buried facing the Church if you stand a stride infront of the new stone turn to your left and there lays the Gipsy, Daniel Boswell. I found all this out by chance and by just digging away at chances that came my way, i was very lucky indeed the day i chanced by Selston, Dan was there to when i first approached his tomb i stopped in my track's i could feel him in a seeing way he told he was waiting sad to touched with anger within the moment he was gone he never came back, that's just the way of it. 

 John Smith 1723–1785 Thomas Smith 1686–1759 bullwell Nottingham.

All the information that i am writing about is information that i come across what is correct or
totally wrong or even something between is something that only time will reveal.