Author Topic: Still stuck on Robert Walker's parents  (Read 5371 times)

Offline ZerooreZ

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Still stuck on Robert Walker's parents
« on: Sunday 04 October 15 07:05 BST (UK) »
I'm stuck in my search at this couple.  They had a son, Robert Walker.  One source says he was born in 1829.  Another 1831.

Another source says that the elder Robert Walker's wife's name was Muiraleen Campbell Buchanan, yet the younger Robert Walker's marriage registration says it's Flora.

Apparently the younger Robert Walker was born on Easdale Island and his father worked in the quarry, yet there's a document that says he was a cottar.

I would be very happy for any information that would clarify things.

Offline AMBLY

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Re: Still stuck on Robert Walker's parents
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 04 October 15 13:59 BST (UK) »
Hi ZerooreZ,

Is this your Robert WALKER Jnr, as follows?

MARRIAGE :
Robert WALKER Jnr married Margaret WATSON 27 May 1854 at Houston And Killellan,  Renfrewshire
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XYQQ-D55

Among their many children:
Son: Robert WALKER b 22 Mar 1855, Houston, Renfrew (he is with Watson Grandparents in 1861 Census)
Son: William Watson WALKER b 1857, Houston, Renfrew
Daughter Margaret Buchanan WALKER  born 1865, Kilmalcom Renfrewshire

CENSUS of the couple and their children:
Census 1861: Robert WALKER age 30, in Houston & Killelan, Renfrewshire, PoB  Islay, Argyll
Census 1871: Robert WALKER age 40, in Kilmalcolm, Renfrewshire, PoB: Kilbrandon, ----shire
Census 1881: Robert WALKER age 50, in Kilmalcolm, Renfrewshire. PoB: Kilbrandon, Argyll
Census 1891: Robert WALKER age 60, in Inchinnan, Renfrewshire. PoB: Kilbrandon, Argyll
Census 1901: Robert WALKER age 70, in Inchinnan, Renfrewshire. PoB: Easdale, Argyll

Robert's age is consistent 1861 through to 1901 - that is:  born 1831.

What are your sources for his being born 1829?

Census 1841: Shows a Robert WALKER, age 12, in Balvicar Village which is on Island of Seil - near Easdale Island, but he's not with other WALKERs.
http://www.freecen.org.uk/cgi/search.pl

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balvicar
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easdale

If this is your Robert jnr, he married  in1854 BEFORE the 1855 start of Civil Registration in Scotland - so I'd be a bit surprised if his parents are named on his marriage record, especially his mother? 

What does his death record say about his parents?

What is the source of his father Robert's occupations?  (He could have been a Cottar who worked on the slate mines - or work with slate from the mines as an aside.)

What is the source of his mother's name as : Muiraleen Campbell Buchanan (the first name there is unusual for the place & times)

Cheers
AMBLY
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

"Now that we're all here, I'm not sure if we're all there...."

 Entre los individuos, como entre las naciones, el respeto al derecho ajeno es la paz
 Among individuals, as among nations, respect for the rights of others is peace
    ~Benito Juarez (1806-1872)

Offline ZerooreZ

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Re: Still stuck on Robert Walker's parents
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 04 October 15 23:15 BST (UK) »
Thank you so much for your interest in this.

Yes, the first person you list is the son, and I also came up with that birth year (1831) from census records.

The 1829 date is from a small book published on the McVannel clan.  It lists his birthdate as June 1, 1829.

I'm curious about that boy from the 1841 census as the name and age would match up, but it's hard to say conclusively that it's whom I'm looking for.

What's interesting about that census record is that that household is a real mix of names and ages.  I wonder if that's the Robert Walker that I'm looking for, that he was temporarily put up in some home away from his parents.

Yes, it's unfortunate timing, being married a year before the statutory marriage records started. However I did find a marriage banns.  It doesn't mention any parents' names.

I found a short death record that just gives his parents names, but no birth dates or places for them.  His father was Robert Walker and mother Flora Buchanan.  This record states that the father was a cottar.

The name Muiraleen Campbell Buchanan comes from a relative.  I think she made a mistake, as clearly the death record of the jr. Robert Walker says his mother's name was Flora.  Then again, maybe that was a nickname.

Thank you again for your help.






Offline ZerooreZ

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Re: Still stuck on Robert Walker's parents
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 10 October 15 23:36 BST (UK) »
Dear Ambly,

I'm curious where you found the census data that you noted:

CENSUS of the couple and their children:
Census 1861: Robert WALKER age 30, in Houston & Killelan, Renfrewshire, PoB  Islay, Argyll
Census 1871: Robert WALKER age 40, in Kilmalcolm, Renfrewshire, PoB: Kilbrandon, ----shire
Census 1881: Robert WALKER age 50, in Kilmalcolm, Renfrewshire. PoB: Kilbrandon, Argyll
Census 1891: Robert WALKER age 60, in Inchinnan, Renfrewshire. PoB: Kilbrandon, Argyll
Census 1901: Robert WALKER age 70, in Inchinnan, Renfrewshire. PoB: Easdale, Argyll

I didn't find that on the FreeCEN page, and at Family Search I've only seen individual entries, not households.

It's interesting that this Robert Walker is listed as being born in Islay, Kilbrandon, and Easdale.  Easdale is part of Kilbrandon, but Islay is a different place.  I haven't been able to find a record of his birth.  I've checked the records at Scotlands People (Old Parish Registers and Catholic Registers).

I haven't found any marriage record for his parents, and unfortunately haven't found any death records either.  The story is that his father died in a quarry accident at Easdale Island and that after that, the younger Robert Walker walked down to Renfrew with his mother to start a new life.

If the 1841 census entry with a Robert Walker as a 12 year old in Balvicar Village is him, then that would match with the 1829 date of birth that I have for him, but it makes me wonder why he was in such a mixed household and where his parents were at the time.  The quarry accident supposedly happened in the late 40s, so his father should have still been around at this time.  Nobody in that household has the same surname and they're all different ages.  There isn't a husband and wife in that household either.  It just seems like some random collection of people.

I was in touch with the Easdale Island Folk Museum and they don't have any Walkers in their records.


ZerooreZ


Offline Rosinish

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Re: Still stuck on Robert Walker's parents
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 10 October 15 23:59 BST (UK) »

CENSUS of the couple and their children:
Census 1861: Robert WALKER age 30, in Houston & Killelan, Renfrewshire, PoB Islay, Argyll
Census 1871: Robert WALKER age 40, in Kilmalcolm, Renfrewshire, PoB: Kilbrandon, ----shire
Census 1881: Robert WALKER age 50, in Kilmalcolm, Renfrewshire. PoB: Kilbrandon, Argyll
Census 1891: Robert WALKER age 60, in Inchinnan, Renfrewshire. PoB: Kilbrandon, Argyll
Census 1901: Robert WALKER age 70, in Inchinnan, Renfrewshire. PoB: Easdale, Argyll

It's interesting that this Robert Walker is listed as being born in Islay, Kilbrandon, and Easdale.  Easdale is part of Kilbrandon, but Islay is a different place.  I haven't been able to find a record of his birth.  I've checked the records at Scotlands People (Old Parish Registers and Catholic Registers).

ZerooreZ

The place of birth 1861 for Robert states Islay, Argyll, it's the others he was born Kilbrandon.

Annie

ADDED......may have been a mistake as there is a Kilchoman on Islay (possibly misheard & assumed to be Islay?
South Uist, Inverness-shire, Scotland:- Bowie, Campbell, Cumming, Currie

Ireland:- Cullen, Flannigan (Derry), Donahoe/Donaghue (variants) (Cork), McCrate (Tipperary), Mellon, Tol(l)and (Donegal & Tyrone)

Newcastle-on-Tyne/Durham (Northumberland):- Harrison, Jude, Kemp, Lunn, Mellon, Robson, Stirling

Kettering, Northampton:- MacKinnon

Canada:- Callaghan, Cumming, MacPhee

"OLD GENEALOGISTS NEVER DIE - THEY JUST LOSE THEIR CENSUS"

Offline AMBLY

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Re: Still stuck on Robert Walker's parents
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 11 October 15 03:02 BST (UK) »
I'm curious where you found the census data that you noted:
CENSUS of the couple and their children:
1861>1901
I didn't find that on the FreeCEN page, and at Family Search I've only seen individual entries, not households.

FreeCEN is an ongoing project & doesn't have all years for all shires/burghs; 1841 is the most complete all round, followed by 1851, a smattering of other years. There are other (subscription) sites where either all Scottish Census are available as transcribed records for each 'household' together, or on Scotlands People as images (once you've found the right people through their search engine).

I had presumed you already had all these census 1861>1901. If you would like me to type up & post each household in each one,  just let me know !

It's interesting that this Robert Walker is listed as being born in Islay, Kilbrandon, and Easdale.  Easdale is part of Kilbrandon, but Islay is a different place.
"Islay" is what has been transcribed by a pay site. To be 100% sure this is what is written down in the enumeration book, you'd have to check the original image.

I haven't been able to find a record of his birth.  I've checked the records at Scotlands People (Old Parish Registers and Catholic Registers).
You may never find a record of his birth - and as it's before 1855, such a record would be of a christening/baptism as opposed to the actual birth. - and as such, a christening might occur close to a birth or in some cases, years late - or not at all. He may well have not been Established Church of Scotland (which is what the OPR's are, by and large);  Catholicism whilst not impossible, would probably be less likely than other Non-conformists : Weslyan Baptist Methodist , etc.  OPR or Non-Conformist records can be patchy in both survival or existence in the first place, record keeping differed from shire-to-shire and parish-to-parish, clerk-to-clerk. Read more here:
https://familysearch.org/learn/wiki/en/Kilbrandon_and_Kilchattan,_Argyll,_Scotland_Church_Records

I haven't found any marriage record for his parents, and unfortunately haven't found any death records either. 
Ditto

The story is that his father died in a quarry accident at Easdale Island and that after that, the younger Robert Walker walked down to Renfrew with his mother to start a new life.

Try and find out if there is at least a register of mining accidents in Scottish Slate mines, or if there was a larger accident at the Easdale mine in the 1840's, perhaps one which involved a number of people rather than a single incident with a single miner.

If the 1841 census entry with a Robert Walker as a 12 year old in Balvicar Village is him……………..It just seems like some random collection of people.

At the ripe age of 12, Robert would have easily been out to work at that age and away from family; perhaps he was deemed too young for the quarries, or his parents wanted to keep him away from the quarries? In any case , if that's him in 1841 (as it looks like it could be), he's been found a 'place' with the McKay family of Isle of Seil where father McKAY's occupation is "Post"  -  quite an important job in the wide area, keeping communications etc, and like as not ran the local store too - certainly enough to occupy both McKAY men and the 2 male servants.

The 1841 Census isn't  random. And very much unusually for FreeCEN, they've transcribed the record quite incorrectly. This is how it should be, I checked the image - the 1841 household of Archibald McKAY snr:

//
Arch'd McKAY 60, Post - Y
Mary McKAY 55, - Y
Catherine McKAY 20, - Y
Arch'd McKAY 25, Post - Y
/
William GILCHRIST 20, M.S. - Y
Robert WALKER 12, M.S. - Y
Arch'd CURRIE 8 - N
//

The image shows no 3 year old Jean MAY at all,  and James CLERK is the head of the next household after the McKAYS!

The household after them have been transcribed correctly, it's just a hiccup with the McKAYS.

Apparently the younger Robert Walker was born on Easdale Island and his father worked in the quarry, yet there's a document that says he was a cottar.
Take a look at the household after the McKAYS in 1841 on FreeCEN,  where you will see Mary McQUEEN was the Cottar, and the men in the household were in the Quarries. Similar with many other households, quite often an older man as a Cottar, younger men as Quarriers.

Cheers
AMBLY
 
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

"Now that we're all here, I'm not sure if we're all there...."

 Entre los individuos, como entre las naciones, el respeto al derecho ajeno es la paz
 Among individuals, as among nations, respect for the rights of others is peace
    ~Benito Juarez (1806-1872)

Offline MonicaL

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Re: Still stuck on Robert Walker's parents
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 11 October 15 14:41 BST (UK) »

...Among their many children:
Son: Robert WALKER b 22 Mar 1855, Houston, Renfrew (he is with Watson Grandparents in 1861 Census)


With all of Ambly's info, would be worthwhile hopefully you looking at the original image for this birth. The first year of official registration and lots of extra info was included as the entries ran over two pages of the register for one year only. For births, it normally includes in 1855, date and place of parents' marriage, where parents were born and how old they were and how many children they had (alive/deceased, boys/girls). You might get some extra piece of confirmation from the info there.

Monica  :)
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Offline ZerooreZ

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Re: Still stuck on Robert Walker's parents
« Reply #7 on: Monday 12 October 15 07:11 BST (UK) »
Ambly,

Quote
FreeCEN is an ongoing project & doesn't have all years for all shires/burghs; 1841 is the most complete all round, followed by 1851, a smattering of other years. There are other (subscription) sites where either all Scottish Census are available as transcribed records for each 'household' together, or on Scotlands People as images (once you've found the right people through their search engine).

I had presumed you already had all these census 1861>1901. If you would like me to type up & post each household in each one,  just let me know !

That would be great actually, to see those particular households' entries.  As for censuses, I've just looked at what is available online for free.  I have used Scotlands People lately, but not for censuses.


Quote
You may never find a record of his birth - and as it's before 1855, such a record would be of a christening/baptism as opposed to the actual birth. - and as such, a christening might occur close to a birth or in some cases, years late - or not at all. He may well have not been Established Church of Scotland (which is what the OPR's are, by and large);  Catholicism whilst not impossible, would probably be less likely than other Non-conformists : Weslyan Baptist Methodist , etc.  OPR or Non-Conformist records can be patchy in both survival or existence in the first place, record keeping differed from shire-to-shire and parish-to-parish, clerk-to-clerk. Read more here:
https://familysearch.org/learn/wiki/en/Kilbrandon_and_Kilchattan,_Argyll,_Scotland_Church_Records

Thank you.

Quote
Try and find out if there is at least a register of mining accidents in Scottish Slate mines, or if there was a larger accident at the Easdale mine in the 1840's, perhaps one which involved a number of people rather than a single incident with a single miner.

Thanks.  I'm looking into that.

Quote
At the ripe age of 12, Robert would have easily been out to work at that age and away from family; perhaps he was deemed too young for the quarries, or his parents wanted to keep him away from the quarries? In any case , if that's him in 1841 (as it looks like it could be), he's been found a 'place' with the McKay family of Isle of Seil where father McKAY's occupation is "Post"  -  quite an important job in the wide area, keeping communications etc, and like as not ran the local store too - certainly enough to occupy both McKAY men and the 2 male servants.

It's interesting to think about, the young Robert Walker out working in a small village, while his dad is working in the quarries.  I wonder where that would have left his mom though.


Quote
The 1841 Census isn't  random. And very much unusually for FreeCEN, they've transcribed the record quite incorrectly. This is how it should be, I checked the image - the 1841 household of Archibald McKAY snr:

//
Arch'd McKAY 60, Post - Y
Mary McKAY 55, - Y
Catherine McKAY 20, - Y
Arch'd McKAY 25, Post - Y
/
William GILCHRIST 20, M.S. - Y
Robert WALKER 12, M.S. - Y
Arch'd CURRIE 8 - N
//

The image shows no 3 year old Jean MAY at all,  and James CLERK is the head of the next household after the McKAYS!

The household after them have been transcribed correctly, it's just a hiccup with the McKAYS.

Thank you for that.

Apparently the younger Robert Walker was born on Easdale Island and his father worked in the quarry, yet there's a document that says he was a cottar.

Quote
Take a look at the household after the McKAYS in 1841 on FreeCEN,  where you will see Mary McQUEEN was the Cottar, and the men in the household were in the Quarries. Similar with many other households, quite often an older man as a Cottar, younger men as Quarriers.

I did see that in some of the entries.

Thank you for your interest again.  I hope you're enjoying working on your own family history as well.

ZerooreZ

Offline ZerooreZ

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Re: Still stuck on Robert Walker's parents
« Reply #8 on: Monday 12 October 15 07:21 BST (UK) »
Hi Monica,

Quote
With all of Ambly's info, would be worthwhile hopefully you looking at the original image for this birth. The first year of official registration and lots of extra info was included as the entries ran over two pages of the register for one year only. For births, it normally includes in 1855, date and place of parents' marriage, where parents were born and how old they were and how many children they had (alive/deceased, boys/girls). You might get some extra piece of confirmation from the info there.


I did look for a record of this particular Robert Walker's birth, and found one at Scotlands People.  It didn't give me any information other than what I already knew.  It did give his father's birth place as Argyllshire, but no birth date (although I do have a birth date from a different source).  It does say that the father was 25 years old at the time, which suggests he was born in 1830 or 1829.  That would confirm the 1829 date that I have, but seems to be in conflict with the 1831 date suggested by the various censuses.  I've heard that sometimes ages are rounded off in censuses, so perhaps that was the case.

Thanks for the help.

ZerooreZ