McNeill ancestors Paisley

[marije87]

Hallo, I'm from holland and trough the dutch name "De Vogel" and then the English name "Stavers" I decent from a McNeill brance. I know McNeill is also writen like: McNeil of McNiel(l)

I found some info on familytree sites from other people but I have a hard time finding Original documents to confirm the info I have.

It starts with: Frances Mary McNeill
born probably 30 jul 1804, but I can't find a record of it
Married on 31 may 1827, London with Thomas Reed Stavers (I do have a record)
died on 21 may 1878, Arnhem The Netherlands (I do have a Dutch record)

her parents are: William McNiell and Elisabeth (don't know her maiden name, could be Andrews, but not sure)
they married on 7 oct 1798, London (can't find a record)
William McNeill was born on 1 may 1758, Paisley (I do have a record)
he probably died on 14 mar 1840 (but his dead says he was born in 1755) So Im not sure if this is the right William McNeill.

His parents are (probably) John McNeill (1714 Greenock - 1785)
and Christian Christina Dinsmore (born 1718 Paisley
married 1744 in Paisley

John McNiell his parents are probably:
Neil McNeill (1691 Bute - 1768 Glasgow)
Agnes McKinnie (1690 - ....)

Who knows more about these people and can maybe help me find official/Original records

Thanks

[DonM]

Here are the original birth/baptismal records available for the McNeil/Dunsmore family.  There may be more children, but not recorded.

You state William was born May 1, 1758 and you have a record of this.  If this is correct then the McNeil/Dunsmore line is not yours. This William was born the 1st of March, baptized on the 3rd.

The only other recorded William born 1750-1760 in Renfrewshire is the son of James McNeal/Jean Walker and he was born Nov 1758.

03/11/1745 MCNEIL AGNES JOHN MCNEIL/CHRISTIAN DINSMURE FR65 (FR65) F PAISLEY BURGH OR LOW /RENFREW 573/03 0010 0061
21/12/1749 MCNEIL ARCHIBALD JOHN MCNEIL/CHRISTIAN DINSMURE FR102 (FR102) M PAISLEY BURGH OR LOW /RENFREW 573/03 0010 0098
21/04/1748 MCNEIL JOHN JOHN MCNEIL/CHRISTIAN DINSMURE FR84 (FR84) M PAISLEY BURGH OR LOW /RENFREW 573/03 0010 0080
30/03/1754 MCNIEL HUGH JOHN MCNIEL/CHRISTIAN DUNMORE FR161 (FR161) M PAISLEY BURGH OR LOW /RENFREW 573/03 0010 0156
30/03/1754 MCNIEL JAMES JOHN MCNIEL/CHRISTIAN DUNMORE FR161 (FR161) M PAISLEY BURGH OR LOW /RENFREW 573/03 0010 0156
30/03/1754 MCNIEL JANET JOHN MCNIEL/CHRISTIAN DUNMORE FR161 (FR161) F PAISLEY BURGH OR LOW /RENFREW 573/03 0010 0156
03/03/1758 MCNIELL WILLIAM JOHN MCNIELL/CHRISTIAN DUNSMOOR FR215 (FR215) M PAISLEY BURGH OR LOW /RENFREW 573/03 0010 0207

Here is the McNeil/Dunsmore marriage.

21/04/1748 MCNEIL JOHN JOHN MCNEIL/CHRISTIAN DINSMURE FR84 (FR84) M PAISLEY BURGH OR LOW /RENFREW 573/03 0010 0080

You can obtain copies of the original records, if they exist you can find on Scotland's People http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk

Good luck

Don

[marije87]

Thank you for the found information.
I see, I made a little mistake in my info. Because the William in my tree was indeed born on 1 mar. (Mar and May are easy to type the wrong letter.)

Thank you for the help and the site you reconmanded.

[Annette7]

I looked at an online tree which stated that William McNeill married Elizabeth Andrews 7/10/1798 at St. Martin in the Fields, London.   Records for this parish are online on Findmypast and there is no such marriage listed, nor can I find it anywhere! (Searched on both names separately).

Nor can I find the baptism for dau. Frances Mary in 1804.   I suggest you contact an owner of online tree and ask where they got this information from.

Annette

[marije87]

I looked at an online tree which stated that William McNeill married Elizabeth Andrews 7/10/1798 at St. Martin in the Fields, London.   Records for this parish are online on Findmypast and there is no such marriage listed, nor can I find it anywhere! (Searched on both names separately).

Nor can I find the baptism for dau. Frances Mary in 1804.   I suggest you contact an owner of online tree and ask where they got this information from.

And her parents are named in her death certificat as William McNiell and Elisabeth McNiell. The name Andrews also come from Thomas Reed Stavers' journal.

Annette

I have this information from the journal writen by Thomas Reed Stavers, husband of Frances Mary McNiell and son in law of William McNiell. So pretty much from close family members.

[Forfarian]

Who knows more about these people and can maybe help me find official/Original records

Almost all surviving Scottish baptism/birth/marriage/death and census records are available at www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk.

If the one you are looking for is not on Scotland's People (SP), it won't be reliably available anywhere else online, because FamilySearch and all the commercial web sites have indexes to the information on SP.

There are a very few pre-1855 registers that are not available on SP, mostly of the Episcopal Church or one of the dissenting churches. These have to be tracked down individually and searched by old-fashioned methods.

Differences in spelling - MacNeil, MacNeill, McNeil, McNeill, McNiel, McNiell and so on - are not significant.

[Forfarian]

According to the 1871 and 1881 census, William McNiell of Bexley Road Sandcliff Erith Dartford Kent was born in Middlesex, and the 1881 census says Marylebone, which is in London. In 1871 he gives his age as 64 and in 1881 he says 75, so he was born between 1805 and 1807.

He married Augusta Maria Dietrichsen in Marylebone on 30 August 1826. Perhaps the original of that marriage might contain some more information?

He could be the son of William McNiell and Elizabeth, born in Marylebone on 26 June 1806, which would fit with the information you have about Frances Mary.

There is also an Elizabeth Ann McNiell, parents William and Elizabeth, born in Marylebone on 10 September 1798 who may or may not be a sister.

Could Frances have been born in London like her younger brother?

[marije87]

Yes Frances Mary McNiell was born in London.
In her death certificat her parents are names William en Elisabeth McNiell and her age is 83 an 9 months. (died on 21 may 1878 in Arnhem, Netherlands).
The William born in jun 1806 who married Augusta Maria Dietrichsen is her younger brother and she has two older sisters. Elisabeth Ann born 10 sep 1798 and Margareth Catherina born 21 mar 1801. All three sisters married to a Stavers boy (three brothers).

Their mother died in 1807 and on 11 jan 1808 William McNiell remarried Mary Chase. The dying of ther mother and years later the death of her stepmother is mentioned in the journal of Thomas Reed Stavers, husband of Frances Mary McNiell.

[Forfarian]

her parents are: William McNiell and Elisabeth (don't know her maiden name, could be Andrews, but not sure) they married on 7 oct 1798, London (can't find a record)

she has two older sisters. Elisabeth Ann born 10 sep 1798

Have you seen the baptism of Elisabeth Ann? Because if she was born a month before her parents married, surely the record would state her mother's surname?

Alternatively, if Elisabeth Ann was legitimate, her parents must have been married before October 1798.