Author Topic: "Rossel House" School Photograph  (Read 7055 times)

Offline fadge36

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Re: "Rossel House" School Photograph
« Reply #9 on: Wednesday 28 October 15 10:23 GMT (UK) »
Noticed that there is a Pelly II in the front and wonder if this is C Nigel Pelly ,later a renowned pilot, who famously flew Neville Chamberlain to meet Hitler in 1938. He was a Mourne Grange pupil.
fadge

Offline aghadowey

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Re: "Rossel House" School Photograph
« Reply #10 on: Wednesday 28 October 15 14:19 GMT (UK) »
A Bob Tisdall (born 1907) went to Mourne Grange-
http://www.achilles.org/ftp/tisdall.pdf
Away sorting out DNA matches... I may be gone for some time many years!

Offline aghadowey

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Re: "Rossel House" School Photograph
« Reply #11 on: Wednesday 28 October 15 16:40 GMT (UK) »
If you search PRONI's e-catalogue using 'mourne grange' you will see that in addition to various photographs they also hold registers which would cover the period your grandfather might have been enrolled.
http://www.proni.gov.uk/index/search_the_archives/ecatalogue.htm
Away sorting out DNA matches... I may be gone for some time many years!

Offline tumpy51

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Re: "Rossel House" School Photograph
« Reply #12 on: Tuesday 03 November 15 16:44 GMT (UK) »
So many replies and I have (unbelievably) been without internet for days. Will read them all and digest. Thank you everyone!


Offline tumpy51

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Re: "Rossel House" School Photograph
« Reply #13 on: Tuesday 03 November 15 17:21 GMT (UK) »
Great sleuthing!

I have just looked at all the PRONI photos on flickr and it is undoubtedly Mourne Grange School. I now have a starting point for research. I hope this will also help anyone else who has relatives in the photo. The names are a great bonus.

Jo

Offline TheWhuttle

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Re: "Rossel House" School Photograph
« Reply #14 on: Tuesday 03 November 15 23:53 GMT (UK) »
"Jolly two-shoes you!", Jo.
[You shouldn't laud us so much, it just encourages us even more ...]

----
You have a valuable photograph there.
[You may wish to consider sharing it with PRONI, to help preserve it publicly for posterity.
 There are many photographs around, but very few with such valuable annotation on them.]

In the meantime, to help out the Internet-crawling robots with indexing the location and the names, these texts should supply sufficiently differentiated fodder for them:

Photograph
Allison & Sons, Newry

Rossel House
Mourne Grange School, Kilkeel, County Down, Northern Ireland

ALEXANDER
BARBOUR
DORAN
ELKINS (?)
FRANKS
GRACIE
PELLEY
ROTHERAM
RUSSEL
SCOTT
STEWART
STRACHAN
TISDALL
WHEELER
WRIGHT

-----

Here is the image of a postcard of the whole school facade (date unknown):
[The building on the left seems to present a wide doorway flanked by two bay windows, just like your (restricted view) photograph.]

http://www.postcardsireland.com/postcard/mourne-grange-kilkeel

Its founder is buried locally, with family (?):
Allen Sausmarez CAREY
Florence Caroline CAREY (wife?)
Patrick Sausmarez CAREY (son?)
http://tracingyourmourneroots.com/?s=carey
http://tracingyourmourneroots.com/person/allen-sausmarez-carey/

Some info on the town (including present-day Education):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilkeel

Perhaps, son(?) Patrick CAREY's penchant for drama was picked up from one of the main themes of his father's school?

"But the 50’s were a golden decade, under the direction of Patrick Carey, headmaster at Grange primary school in Kilkeel. His skill and dedication sent Newpoint Players’ reputation rocketing. The B.B.C. selected the Newry society to participate in the programme, “We do it for love,” and they were also chosen to represent Northern Ireland at the Festival of Britain. Then came the ultimate accolade at the All-Ireland Drama Festival in Athlone, winning a special award for “The Duchess of Malfi,” following by the premier prize for “Arms and the Man” in 1958. This was broadcast on Radio Eireann."
http://www.newrymemoirs.com/stories_pages/giantsofdrama_1.html

-----
Given Kilkeel's great sea trading history, I tried hard to find a naval connection for ROSSEL.

One (remote) possibility is a 2nd Lieutenant in Rear Admiral Bruni D'Entrecasteaux's French expedition to the Polynesian islands in the early 1790s, who eventually had to take over control.  Monsieur M. ROSSEL seems to have had an island named after him.
http://nzetc.victoria.ac.nz/tm/scholarly/tei-BucExpl-t1-body-d16-d7.html

This is roughly around the time of NELSON coming to prominence.
So, perhaps, the houses were named ROSSEL, COCHRAN, SAUSMAREZ, (NELSON), ...
[But this is pure speculation, and there is probably a more prosaic solution.]

Just the sort of spirit that a male independent school of the time would be trying to inculcate within its pupils.
[Boldness, confidence, courage, determination, prowess, comradeship, leadership, decisiveness, persuaviness, oratory, competing, battling, winning, out_smarting, strategy, knowledge, etc.]

-----
Reckon that the identification of a Guernsey connection of the founder is secure though.
The CAREY's are long established there - since the 14thC!
They also seem to have married in to the ALLENs.
http://www.careyroots.com/index.html
[Sadly this site has not been updated since 2005, and many of the links do not work.]

Thus reckon that Fadge's assessment of the "overseas" nature of the floppy hats can be met, almost.
They are just the sort of thing that a gentleman on a sunny windswept island in the Empire might wear.
Jamaica, Bermuda, ... , Malta, ... , Ceylon, ...., Guernsey!
[The Channel Islands are as far away as you can get from the North of Ireland within the British Isles, without having to use a passport.  Great place for producing early-season vegetables.  Lovely young tomatoes and new potatoes (though no use for producing potato bread!).]

-----
I am much interested in connections between Guernsey and County Antrim, so very glad that such turned up unexpectedly in this research.

My own family were there in the mid-19thC, but why is a mystery.
[Solving such might clear our 18thC boundary log jam!]

Possibly with earlier connections to the Napoleonic Wars.
[General Henry SEYMOUR-CONWAY (brother of Lord Hertford - owner of most of SW Antrim - Lisburn et al.), who was M.P for County Antrim then Chief Secretary of Ireland, was also Governor of Jersey for many years, organising the defences of St. Helier, such proving effective when the French attempted an invasion a few years later.  etc. etc.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Seymour_Conway]

-----
Hope that you didn't mind the colloquialisms.
Some can find them a tad "affected".
[I had to send my son to a small English independent school.
 He returned every weekend with these phrases, much to my amusement.]

Anyway, think that that is all that I can help you with from online searches.
Further answers lie in PRONI (and maybe the Priaulx Library, St. Peter Port, Guernsey).

All the best with your further trawling of the murky depths!
Capt. Jock
WHITTLEY - Donegore, Ballycraigy, Newtownards, Guernsey, PALI
WHITTLE - Dublin, Glenavy, Muckamore, Belfast; Jamaica; Norfolk (Virginia), Baltimore (Maryland), New York
CHAINE - Ballymena, Muckamore, Larne
EWART, DEWART - Portglenone, Ballyclare
McAFEE, WALKER - Ballyrashane

"You can't give kindness away enough, it keeps coming back to you."
Mark Twain (aka Samuel CLEMENTS) [Family origins from Ballynure, Co. Antrim.]

Offline tumpy51

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Re: "Rossel House" School Photograph
« Reply #15 on: Wednesday 04 November 15 17:09 GMT (UK) »
Hi again,

With all your information I was able to locate the original advertisement in the Belfast Newsletter, (I had findmy past credits to use up)  which boasts
 "the healthy climate is particularly suited for delicate boys" !

Jo

 

Offline fadge36

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Re: "Rossel House" School Photograph
« Reply #16 on: Wednesday 04 November 15 19:46 GMT (UK) »
Hi Jo.
Glad you have returned from the darkness without internet connection.
Not sure when the school closed but suspect there are many ex pupils out there who would know the House names and more about the school generally.
Would love to know your grandfather's name and home. Who knows what information the experts on this Forum could unearth when you see the stuff already produced.
Think the school became a special needs community in the 70s.
fadge
 

Offline TheWhuttle

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Re: "Rossel House" School Photograph
« Reply #17 on: Thursday 05 November 15 17:56 GMT (UK) »
Well found on the original newspaper advertisement.
[This was repeated regularly until the school opened in September 1900.]

Its full content confirms many of the speculations ...

-----
AN ENGLISH PREPARATORY SCHOOL IN IRELAND
WILL BE OPENED IN SEPTEMBER TO
prepare Boys for the English Public Schools and Royal Navy.

English surroundings and English servants.

The House and Grounds, situated near Mourne Park,
are close to the Mourne Mountains and the open sea.

The healthy climate is particularly suited for delicate boys.

Full particulars from the HEADMASTER, Mourne Grange, Kilkeel, Co. Down
-----
Ref: Advertisements & Notices .
The Belfast News-Letter, Thursday, June 14, 1900; Issue 26478.


Bob Tisdall 1907-2004 was an interesting character.  Out of a land owning family from Nenagh, Tipperary, he was born on Ceylon where his father was a tea planter.  He went up to Shrewsbury from Mourne Grange.  Then on to Gonville & Caius, Cambridge later where his athletic prowess flowered, prior to his Olympic triumph at Los Angeles in 1932 representing Ireland. He spent time in India, South Africa & Kenya, before emigrating to Queensland, Australia!  Didn't like the air in London nor the cold/wet climate in Cork!

Ref: "Bob Tisdall; Obituary." Times [London, England] 2 Aug. 2004

If that is him in the photo (next to your man) then, given that he looks aged ~13, that would give an estimate of the date of the photo of 1919-1920.

Reckon that the Preparatory School would have taken boys aged 8-14 (16).

----

A Mr. A.S. Carey, Mourne Grange (presumably another son of the founder) went up to Cheltenham college.

Scholarships - £30 Exhibitioners (awarded to boys NOT already at the college).
Cheltenham Chronicle and Gloucestershire Graphic, Saturday, June 10, 1933; pg. 8.
British Newspapers, Part IV: 1780-1950.

Cheltenham College  - £80 Exhibitions (awarded to boys already at the college).
[Mr. A.S. Carey had his reallocated to another boy.]
Cheltenham Chronicle and Gloucestershire Graphic, Saturday, June 06, 1925; pg. 5.
British Newspapers, Part IV: 1780-1950.

Cheltenham College - £80 Entrance Scholarships.
Cheltenham Chronicle and Gloucestershire Graphic, Saturday, June 07, 1924; pg. 6.
British Newspapers, Part IV: 1780-1950.

Scholarships were awarded by the results in exams.
[Looks like he might have had ~5 years out ...]
WHITTLEY - Donegore, Ballycraigy, Newtownards, Guernsey, PALI
WHITTLE - Dublin, Glenavy, Muckamore, Belfast; Jamaica; Norfolk (Virginia), Baltimore (Maryland), New York
CHAINE - Ballymena, Muckamore, Larne
EWART, DEWART - Portglenone, Ballyclare
McAFEE, WALKER - Ballyrashane

"You can't give kindness away enough, it keeps coming back to you."
Mark Twain (aka Samuel CLEMENTS) [Family origins from Ballynure, Co. Antrim.]