Author Topic: WW1 on the 9th May 1915  (Read 1929 times)

Offline mirrin

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WW1 on the 9th May 1915
« on: Sunday 01 November 15 16:59 GMT (UK) »
I am doing some research on the circumstances of the death of my ancestor who was in 2nd Bn., Black Watch (Royal Highlanders). He was killed on the 9th may, 1915. His name is on the Le Touret Memorial. Quote from some research that I have found from the 9th May " The leading companies of the 1/Black Watch of 1st (Guards) Brigade, brought in to replace the shattered 2nd Brigade, went over the top despite the 1/Cameron Highlanders being late to arrive and moved at the double across No Man's Land." This was from a report on the Battle of Aubers.  Would the 2nd Brigade mentioned be the 2nd Bn., of the Black Watch?  (Brigade and Bn., being  the same)  Was General Haig in overall command of this battle?

Offline Jebber

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Re: WW1 on the 9th May 1915
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 01 November 15 17:10 GMT (UK) »
A Battalion is part of a Brigade, each Brigade has several Battalions.

 To help you with military research, you will find it helpful to familiarise yourself with some facts about the Army. I suggest you Google "Structure of the British Army" there is a lot of information out there.
CHOULES All ,  COKER Harwich Essex & Rochester Kent 
COLE Gt. Oakley, & Lt. Oakley, Essex.
DUNCAN Kent
EVERITT Colchester, Dovercourt & Harwich Essex
GULLIVER/GULLOFER Fifehead Magdalen Dorset
HORSCROFT Kent.
KING Sturminster Newton, Dorset. MONK Odiham Ham.
SCOTT Wrabness, Essex
WILKINS Stour Provost, Dorset.
WICKHAM All in North Essex.
WICKHAM Medway Towns, Kent from 1880
WICKHAM, Ipswich, Suffolk.

Offline mirrin

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Re: WW1 on the 9th May 1915
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 01 November 15 20:13 GMT (UK) »
Thank you for the information, very helpful


Offline Gwil

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Re: WW1 on the 9th May 1915
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 01 November 15 21:35 GMT (UK) »
In short the answer to your query is that the quote does not apply to the 2nd Bn. It applies to a different battalion in a different brigade in a different division.

If you want to see what 2nd Bn were doing on 8th May 1915* then you can download their War Diary for about 3.30 here
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7356139
(save it to your PC)

You should be able to track his war from when he landed (which should be on his medal card) to that death date.

From this site you'll see that 2nd Bn Black Watch was in the Indian Army at that time i.e 'Part of the Bareilly Brigade in Meerut Division.'

http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-british-infantry-regiments-of-1914-1918/royal-highlanders-black-watch/

Normally I would advise scrolling down the page to find further details of the Division. Unfortunately in this case the relevant page is in the process of being rewritten. Here's the link if you want to bookmark for periodical checks
http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/order-of-battle-of-divisions/7th-meerut-division/

* assuming that you have checked with SDGW that he was  Killed in Action that date and not Died of Wounds.

Offline philipsearching

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Re: WW1 on the 9th May 1915
« Reply #4 on: Monday 02 November 15 14:37 GMT (UK) »
As Gwil says, the 2nd battalion Black Watch was not at the battle of Aubers Ridge on 9 May 1915.  The 1st battalion Black Watch was in the first wave of the southern pincer attack at Aubers on 9 May 1915 and suffered heavy casualties.

The "long long trail" website has a detailed account with maps:
http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/battles/battles-of-the-western-front-in-france-and-flanders/the-battle-of-aubers/

I recommend that you check your ancestor's medal index card to see if there is a record of which battalion he served in (this is probably a lot cheaper and quicker than trying to find his full service record).

All the best
Philip
Please help me to help you by citing sources for information.

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Offline mirrin

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Re: WW1 on the 9th May 1915
« Reply #5 on: Monday 02 November 15 18:47 GMT (UK) »
Thank you Gwil and Philip for the information.  I am at a disadvantage as I do not have a knowledge of military details.  The information that I got from the Black Watch Museum in Perth shows that James Melrose 599 (2nd Battalion) Attested for the Black Watch Edinburgh 26.11.1906(Annotation) Killed in action 9.5.1915 and it says at the Battle of Aubers Ridge. I also have that he served in India and arrived in France 26.9.1914 and that the 2nd Battalion amalgamated with the 1 and 5th Bn. after heavy loses.
I have printed out info from another site - The attack was led by the 2nd Bn. Black Watch on the right, 58th Vaughan's Rifles in the centre and the 41st Dogras on the left and so on. Then states that the southern part of the great battle for Aubers Ridge was finished. 

Offline mirrin

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Re: WW1 on the 9th May 1915
« Reply #6 on: Monday 02 November 15 18:58 GMT (UK) »
Details at the Scottish National War memorial shows
SNWM roll -The Black Watch (Royal Highlanders)
Unit Name -Unknown unit attached to the B. W. R. Highlanders
Other Detail - 2nd Bn.
His name I have located on the Roll of individuals entitled to the Victory Medal and/or British War Medal
From the National Archives it shows that he received both medals mentioned above and 14star Roll G/2/4 also Clasp/2/2674 - date of entry therein is 12.10.14  Remarks K in A

Offline mirrin

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Re: WW1 on the 9th May 1915
« Reply #7 on: Monday 02 November 15 19:07 GMT (UK) »
Had a look at the site you mentioned, very interesting. Gave a list of British casualties in the south pincer on 9.5.15  Read that there were 234 killed 2/Black Watch in first wave of Bareilly Brigade  As far as I can make out the 2nd Bn seemed to be at Aubers Ridge.
Can you tell me if General Haig was in command of the battle.

thanks again for all the input

Offline philipsearching

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Re: WW1 on the 9th May 1915
« Reply #8 on: Monday 02 November 15 22:11 GMT (UK) »
I stand corrected.  The Black Watch museum records are more accurate than my (second-hand) information.

General Haig (who was in overall command of the 1st Army at the time)  designed the plan for the battle and was in overall command of it.

(As a side-note, my 3x great uncle Ernest Raymond of 1/13 London Regiment was reported missing in action on the northern pincer on 9 May 1915.)

Regards
Philip
Please help me to help you by citing sources for information.

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