King, 1851 Census lookup & 2 Sons Missing!

[rosie17]

1891 - Henry King, butler to the Samuel family in Kensington. Listed as married, b Kingston, Hampshire (transcribed as Kinpton)

RG12, 32, 62, 7

Did wonder about that one Mabel 

[Mabel Bagshawe]

Finding it difficult to find them together - but to start I've found a number of baptisms to Henry and Ellen King (Henry always a butler)

Henry - 1880, Clapham
Frank - 1881, Tooting
Hellen - 1882 Tooting
Harriet - 1884, Tooting
Mabel - 1886, Tooting
Robert - 1890, Kensington
Mildred - 1892, Fulham

1881 - 50 Holland St, Brighton. Lodging with Samuel and Sarah Boucher!!

Ellen King            29 - b Wokingham, Berks
Henry King    1 - b Clapham

RG11, 1082, 15, 25


1891 - Bramber Rd, Fulham [the address for Mildred's baptism in 1892]

Hellen King    40 - married, b Binfield, Berks
Harry King    11 - Clapham
Frank King    9 - Brighton
Helen King    7 - Tooting
Harriett King    8 - Tooting
Mabel King    5 - Fulham
Robert King    1 - Fulham

RG12, 46, 91, 34

[Mabel Bagshawe]

something appears to have happened by 1901. The four oldest children are lodging with a Phillip Selley and family, Mabel is in an orphanage and I've not found the youngest ones.

Henry King
Q2 1897  Fulham Vol 1a, p174
Age    43

Also possible death for Ellen in 1898, but in Islington

[DavidJP]

Hi Rosie & Mabel Bagshawe,

Wow!! Incredible! Many many thanks indeed.

Rosie, many thanks for the marriage info re Caroline King & John Charles Oates, much appreciated.

Mabel Bagshawe, many thanks indeed for all the info regarding Henry King, much appreciated indeed. No wonder I couldn't find him, currently missing in 1881, mistranscription in 1891 & dies in 1897! Sadly, as you say something clearly seems to have happened by 1901.


As regards Mary King b1837, as pointed out before she was last seen aged 23 in 1861 in St James, Poole in Dorset (from familysearch census) after that nothing! However in going through my notes I see that I did find a couple of possible marriages in Poole for a Mary King, they being:

King Mary; Sept Qtr 1864; Poole reg dist; Charles Bartlett, Frederick Powell & 1 groom's name missing; vol 3a page 487

King Mary; Dec Qtr 1867; Poole reg dist; William John Barnes & 1 groom's name missing; vol 3a page 637

Whether these marriages from freebmd are correct (ie for my Mary) or not I do not know.

Many thanks indeed for all help thus far, its very much appreciated indeed!

Kind regards

David

[Mabel Bagshawe]

Not sure the 1864 marriage is relevant - I can see a Charles Bartlett in Poole on 1871 with wife Mary (b c1824) and her two teenage daughters, surname of King

[DavidJP]

Hi Mabel Bagshawe,

Many thanks for that, much appreciated.

Kind regards

David

[DavidJP]

Hi,

Have done a little more checking/digging & can now answer one or two questions that came up, but also have a couple more questions as well.

baptisms to Henry and Ellen King (Henry always a butler)

Henry - 1880, Clapham            (Birth Reg, Wandsworth Q1 1880)
Frank - 1881, Tooting             (Birth Reg, Brighton Q2 1881)  (Brighton given as POB in 1901)
Hellen - 1882 Tooting              (Birth Reg, Wandsworth Q1 1883)
Harriet - 1884, Tooting            (Birth Reg, Wandsworth Q2 1884)
Mabel - 1886, Tooting              (Birth Reg either of 2x female Kings Wandsworth Q1 1886 or a Mabel in Fulham Q1 1886)
Robert - 1890, Kensington       (Birth Reg, either Wandsworth Q2 1889 or Fulham Q4 1889)
Mildred - 1892, Fulham             (Birth Reg, Fulham Q4 1891)

Would it be possible to have the baptism dates please?

something appears to have happened by 1901. The four oldest children are lodging with a Phillip Selley and family, Mabel is in an orphanage and I've not found the youngest ones.

Henry King
Q2 1897  Fulham Vol 1a, p174
Age    43

Also possible death for Ellen in 1898, but in Islington

As to the youngest ones Robert & Mildred, the reason that they cannot be found is because they died.  Robert aged 4 in Q1, 1894 & Mildred aged 0 in Q4 in 1891, both Fulham re dist.

Was the Mildred baptism definitely in 1892, or was it 1891? I ask as the only Mildred King birth reg I can find is that shown above in 1891, the only other is a Violet Mildred King in Q2 1892 in Fulham but she is the daughter of an Edward & Eliza King who are in Ealing in 1901.

Where was the orphanage, which Mabel is in, in 1901 as I cannot find her on the 1901 census on familysearch? I notice also that the other 4 children are still in Bramber Road, Fulham in 1901 (lodging with the Selley family), the same road in which they were living with their parents in 1891!

Did Ellen/Helen remarry? I ask as there is a possible marriage in 1899 in Fulham for an Ellen King to a John Noonan or Joseph Willam Whatmore. The age on the Islington possible death was 44, when Ellen/Helen would have been 47/48.

Many thanks for all help thus far, much appreciated.

Kind regards

David

[Mabel Bagshawe]

Henry - bap 9 May 1880    Clapham Holy Trinity            (Birth Reg, Wandsworth Q1 1880)
Frank -  bap 19 Jun 1881    Upper Tooting Holy Trinity             (Birth Reg, Brighton Q2 1881)  (Brighton given as POB in 1901)
Hellen - bap 7 Jan 1882    Upper Tooting Holy Trinity             (Birth Reg, Wandsworth Q1 1883)
Harriet - bap 4 Jun 1884    Upper Tooting Holy Trinity            (Birth Reg, Wandsworth Q2 1884)
Mabel -  b 27 Jan 1886, bap 14 Mar 1886    West Kensington St Andrew      [sorry, not Tooting, my mistake!]       (Birth Reg either of 2x female Kings Wandsworth Q1 1886 or a Mabel in Fulham Q1 1886)
Robert - b 16 Oct 1889 bap 20 Apr 1890    West Kensington St Andrew      (Birth Reg, either Wandsworth Q2 1889 or Fulham Q4 1889)
Mildred - bap 14 Nov 1891, Walham Green             (Birth Reg, Fulham Q4 1891)
transcribed twice on Ancestry as 1891 and 1892 - the register has had these added on after the 1893 dates, so the final figure is a bit unclear but the following entry is also Nov 1891


Mabel King 1901 - aged 15, b Kensington, at King Edward's School [orphanage] , St George's Road, Southwark. Ref RG13, 370, 107, 4

Don't think the 1899 marriage of Ellen King is relevant - there's a John and Ellen Noonan in Fulham in 1901, with 3 months old child. Ellen is 23

By the way - the Selleys and King children are not just in the same street, but the same house! The address on3 Mildred' baptism (and1891 census) is 28 Bramber Road

[DavidJP]

Hi Mabel Bagshawe,

Many thanks indeed, very much appreciated.

Kind regards

David