Author Topic: Help reading/translating this welsh pedigree in the Welsh Language  (Read 35984 times)

Offline despair

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Re: Help reading/translating this welsh pedigree in the Welsh Language
« Reply #18 on: Wednesday 11 November 15 10:18 GMT (UK) »
There are plenty of holes in this,and I'm not sure of the relationships,but:-

Could the will for Maurice Jones that you have attributed to Nathaniel's son,be the will of a brother?
Would this make any more sense of the relationships?There is a document of 1649 referencing Maurice Jones,gent,of Llandrillo,and I will  try to copy a short link..Perhaps he is father of both?(or the subject of the will himself??)
The main reason I suspect this is because I have found a will of 1710 for Maurice Jones,vicar of Llanegryn,Merioneth and an alumni record for Jesus College,Oxford(typical college for clergy) for a Maurice Jones,son of Nath.,of "Hendo,Merv" which I interpret as Hendwr,Merioneth),gent,matric.1673-4 aged 19,who could be synonymous with the vicar of Llanegryn.

Regards
Roger

Added link

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ggj/

Offline despair

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Re: Help reading/translating this welsh pedigree in the Welsh Language
« Reply #19 on: Wednesday 11 November 15 14:32 GMT (UK) »
Perhaps the Maurice Jones of the will,who you thought was the son of Nathaniel,is a direct relation of John Jones as I seem to remember somewhere(!),there is a reference to Maurice Jones,who is a cousin of a Maurice Jones.If he was a brother they could both have David Lloyd as a nephew(?)I could however just be losing the plot a little!

Regards
Roger

Offline jones9

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Re: Help reading/translating this welsh pedigree in the Welsh Language
« Reply #20 on: Wednesday 11 November 15 19:30 GMT (UK) »
Roger,

I still think the will of Maurice Jones, d. 1684 is the son of Nathaniel. He mentions a sister Rebecca Jones - Nathaniel had a daughter Rebecca, etc. - also I think his widow Jane Evans d. 1687, Oswestry (bond at Llandrillo).

On the clerical theme, I notice there is a matriculation on 20th November 1650 at Magdalen Hall, Cambridge for Nathaniel Jones "cler.fil." (clerici filius(?) - 'son of a cleric') - perhaps Maurice Jones (Nathaniel's father) was a clergyman, if it is the same man - Nathaniel doesn't seem to be a common name?

Another line I have tried to look into is that as well as John Jones, Maurice Jones (d. 1684, Hendwr) refers to his cousins John Maesmore of Maesmore and Dorothy Maesmore - I thought this would be an easier family to trace than Jones but can't find any connection to the Joneses of Llandrillo.

It's still very confusing how David Lloyd is a nephew of both Maurice and John Jones....you may be right about them being brothers but it doesn't seem to fit in my mind...


Offline despair

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Re: Help reading/translating this welsh pedigree in the Welsh Language
« Reply #21 on: Friday 13 November 15 09:01 GMT (UK) »
I wonder if John and Dorothy Maesmore are really John and Dorothy Jones of Maesmor(e) and there has been transference of the place name or use of a familiar or colloquial name.
There is a Maesmor(e)(Hall) at Maerdy,west of Corwen,and maybe it is possible that a marriage listed under Gwyddelwern could be relevant(John Jones/Dorothy Williams 1764)

This site has some interesting references to the property,including the surname Maurice(patronymic?) and a line from Owain Brogyntyn.

http://humphrysfamilytree.com/Kerr/lloyd.html

Regards
Roger


Offline hanes teulu

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Re: Help reading/translating this welsh pedigree in the Welsh Language
« Reply #22 on: Friday 13 November 15 09:33 GMT (UK) »
Re. interpreting/translating the extract posted, it relates to the pedigree/lineage of Nathaniel's wife (Mary) - 1st word = "gwraig/wife".

The final line in the extract reads "... ap Osborn ap gwyddelig ("Fitzgerald" written below) Iarll Desmnond" ie. "son of Osborn Fitzgerald Earl of Desmond" (the word crossed out means "Irish").

Grateful to google books "A display of Herauldry, ..." John Davies, Llansilin, 1716 (pages 57/58) for the clues!!



 

Offline despair

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Re: Help reading/translating this welsh pedigree in the Welsh Language
« Reply #23 on: Friday 13 November 15 11:59 GMT (UK) »
John & Dorothy Maesmore are referenced in the following:-

http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=DESC&db=d_star&id=I2711

As you say,no obvious connection.

Regards
Roger

Offline hanes teulu

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Re: Help reading/translating this welsh pedigree in the Welsh Language
« Reply #24 on: Friday 13 November 15 18:33 GMT (UK) »
Just to confirm -
Looking for the pedigree/lineage Nathaniel Jones, High Sheriff of Merionethshire, 1673 - think I've seen somewhere deputy Coroner 1671?

Offline jones9

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Re: Help reading/translating this welsh pedigree in the Welsh Language
« Reply #25 on: Sunday 15 November 15 15:46 GMT (UK) »
Thank you both for your replies.

It looks best to leave the Maesmore connection for now as I can find nothing conclusive.

I looked at the will of John David, d. 1730, Faerdref Ucha (perhaps a brother to William David John, the son-in-law of John and Gwen Jones), and he mentions his cousin Elizabeth ffoulkes and her children 'John Jones, ffoulke Jones, Thomas Jones, Philip Jones, Robert Jones, Mary Jones, Catherine Jones', by husband Thomas Jones, Ty Ucha. In the parish records this is Ty Ucha, Faerdref. His father John Jones (d. 1705) is given as of Faerdref - I think he must be the cousin then of Maurice Jones, who had referred to a John Jones, Ty Ucha, Tyfos....perhaps the two townships are nearby and linked (I can find no boundaries for where Faerdref is supposed to be sited within the parish).

Also, this gives the names of several more children which I did not know about, and I wonder if either of them are the father of either a Rowland Jones, or Griffith Jones. Rowland, as I have mentioned was parish clerk before Thomas, and as this seems to have been almost a hereditary office, I have often wondered if Rowland was a relation - there's nothing likely in the Llandrillo parish records however. Likewise a Griffith Jones is shown as living at Plas Adda when he died in 1770, so I wonder if he was a relation.

I cannot establish exactly how John David is a cousin of Elizabeth ffoulkes, and whether he is perhaps also a relation to Thomas (both of Faerdref). Elizabeth as you noted previously was the daughter of Foulke Morgan and Catherine ferch Thomas. I have a feeling Foulke Morgan is somehow related to the John Foulkes of Cilan whose daughter married Ellen Foulkes, Gabriel Jones, and perhaps related to the Joneses in some way.


Offline hanes teulu

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Re: Help reading/translating this welsh pedigree in the Welsh Language
« Reply #26 on: Sunday 15 November 15 16:57 GMT (UK) »
Had you seen
http://datingoldwelshhouses.co.uk/library/Hhistory/HHBranas-Uchaf.pdf

Mentions a Maurice Jones (won't take your search forward but may be of interest).