Frances 'Fanny' Hartley

[BassinghamTerrier]

Hi again Carole

I have the marriage certificate of John Dobson (the younger) and Faith Chapman at Holy Trinity, Hull on Jan 28th, 1845; both father and son are John Dobson and both are clothiers.

This is probably what steered me towards the two John Dobsons in the 1841 census, father being born in Wakefield c1774 (there is a baptism for a John Dobson in Wakefield, 17th July 1775, son of John Dobson - d'oh!!). I have tracked old man John through the censuses to 1861 (when he is a retired cloth manufacturer) but cannot find a death as yet. He is also listed as a clothier on the death certificate for his wife Frances at 8 Auborough Street, Scarborough, in 1856.

Young John I have everywhere from 1841 to his death in Scarborough in 1900 and he is definitely born in Edinburgh/Midlothian, Scotland although I can find no baptismal proof as I have no access to ScotsPeople or whatever it is.

Just for your interest, my previous threads and responses are here:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=16129.msg57829#msg57829
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=698381.0

MT

[CaroleW]

James was born Glasgow and John Edinburgh and I agree that it's too much of a coincidence that they are both in Yorkshire.

At the moment the only link is father John but nothing to prove that mum was Frances.   So - we need a Scottish baptismal entry for that info as there doesn't appear to be anything on FS.

Have you found an 1841 entry for John & Frances?

I'm just wondering whether perhaps Frances was a second wife but the only way of proving it is to find those baptismal entries

[BassinghamTerrier]

No Carole, no 1841 for John & Frances.
The 1841 I am using is the one which has John Sr and John Jr at Scott Lane, Doncaster in the house of John Venables, whose occupation I am unable to make out.

Doncaster Yorkshire HO107/1340/3 /38 p13

MT

[BassinghamTerrier]

Now then ...

Having said that I couldn't find a death for old man John Dobson, I've just been furtling about in the probate section of An£estry and come across this one ...

"DOBSON John (effects under £200) 15 February 1862: The Will of John Dobson, formerly of Scarborough in the County of York but late of 31 Trinity-lane in the City of York Gentleman deceased who died 2 January 1862 at 31 Trinity-lane aforesaid was proved at York by the oath of James Dobson of 31 Trinity-lane aforesaid Clothier the Son one of the Executors. "

Hardly conclusive, but crikey! It's very convincing!

But ... James Dobson (born in Glasgow) is in Sheffield in 1861. And Hull in 1871.
Could be that he had moved to York between the 1861 census and February 1862. I can't find a James Dobson resident in York in 1861. Straw-clutching time?

MT

[Jomot]

Hull Advertiser and Exchange Gazette 16 August 1856 has a death notice for Frances Dobson of Scarborough aged 71, wife of John Dobson, clothier, of that place.  She died 9th August 1856.

[BassinghamTerrier]

Yep, Jomot. Welcome to the party!

That confirms what I said earlier in the thread about his being noted as a clothier on her death certificate.
The more I think about it, the more I believe that the will is correct. James appears to move around so there's no reason at all why he shouldn't be in York at the start of 1862 and his elderly widowed father has joined the family. After all, father was in lodgings in 1861 so he has no property to call his own, hence effects to the value of under £200.

James was also the older of the two sons so it is probably fitting that he would be the executor of his father's will.

MT

[Jomot]

As John & Frances are not together in 1841 I wonder if this is their marriage:

1842 (Oct-Dec) St Mary, Scarborough, John Dobson & Frances Lownsbrough

In 1841 a Frances Lownsborough aged 55 is living at Aubro Street with 10-year old Eliza Hornby.

Aubro Street (1841 census) &  Auborough St (1851 census) quite possibly the same place

[BassinghamTerrier]

That looks very interesting, Jomot.
And it would back up Carole's theory about it possibly being a second marriage.
The age ties in with the death of Frances Dobson in 1865 too.
Where was Frances born? Needs to be Harpham!

Edit: just realised that the 1841 census doesn't give specific places.
Damn again.
Although, if we can find a baptism in Harpham for Frances Lownesborough c1786 we might be laughing - unless she's already a widow in 1841 so John would be her second marriage!

The thick gets plotter ...

MT

[CaroleW]

Have a look at this marriage reg - one of the spouses is Frances Brown

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2DHJ-XFK

Possible death??

John Lownsbrough March qtr 1842 Bridlington  23 15