Author Topic: Romany DNA - what would you expect to see?  (Read 48009 times)

Offline janicejo

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Re: Romany DNA - what would you expect to see?
« Reply #27 on: Wednesday 06 September 17 18:21 BST (UK) »
Hi Robert - good that you are doing FTDNA as well,  I'm on there too in case we match.  When you get your results there, transfer them to GEDmatch.com, its free, you get more matches, and you might be able to learn something from the ethnicity display on your chromosomes.  Its also pretty technical,  but I try to help all my Romany kin.  I find this site pretty good, and there are links to other informative sites: http://rtfhs.org.uk
    Recently I got a DNA match to a 3rd cousin, Andrew.  He first showed up on my Ancestry list of matches as his photo.  And I thought, "He's one of my Romany cousins".  And he is!!  Andrew, my son Rick, me, and my nephew David all have tan coloring in a family of white people.   Like me, Andrew didn't know about his Romany heritage until he did DNA.
    About your gypsy ancestors being sent here for being "criminals", a whole lot of gypsies were rounded up and sent just because they were gypsy.  So many that, on Ancestry DNA (mostly Americans tested so far), I get all these American DNA matches with Asia South DNA, and none of them knew about their gypsy background.  In fact, a few of them thought they had Native American ancestors. 

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Offline Koolmets21

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Re: Romany DNA - what would you expect to see?
« Reply #28 on: Wednesday 06 September 17 18:32 BST (UK) »
Thanks for the response. Would my current kits from 23andme and Ancestry work to see if we are a match or do we need to use the haplogroup results?

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Offline sallyyorks

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Re: Romany DNA - what would you expect to see?
« Reply #29 on: Thursday 07 September 17 10:21 BST (UK) »
Thought I would chime in. I'm a confirmed Romany descendent of the Campbell clan via Scotland.

Hi again
I'm not sure I am reading this right, but I don't think there is any evidence that a 'Campbell Clan' are 'Romany'.
In another topic you say your family 'adopted' the surname 'Campbell'? Did this happen in the USA and at what date?

My ancestors settled in Virginia (or were convicted there, not sure) in the 1700s.

Do you mean Convict Transportation?
The vast majority of convicts transported to Virginia/the American colonies were English and most of those transported were from the London area, at over 50% of all transported convicts being convicted in London. Scotland had a separate legal/court system and did not use transportation as much as a punishment as England/Wales did.

This is all new to me but i feel like my family hid this from me because when i brought it up to my grandfather it was as if he knew all this. My haplogroup is H1a1- H-M82. When I do autosomal tests i do get trace % from Middle East, Caucasus, Greek/Mediterranean, Southern European, etc. Which i found odd because I always thought my Dad was German and Scottish. But now i believe these trace amounts are from his Romany background. I've posted my GEDmatch results here. My mom's side is 100% Ashkenazi Jewish dating back into the 1700s.

I just recently ordered the kit for FTDNA because I want to help as many people out with our unique background.

Sincerely, Robert Berkley Campbell

A Y Haplo result group H could suggest Romany origins but it could also be for other reasons, especially in a country built on immigration like the USA.
In an 'autosomal' test, the 'trace results' are unreliable. This is from the ancestry FAQS page 

"4. What does it mean when my ethnicity results identify 'Trace Regions'?
Most people may have a percentage identified with 'Trace Regions' in their genetic ethnicity results. Trace Regions are regions where the estimated range includes zero and does not go above 15%, or where the predicted percentage is less than 4.5%. Since there is only a small amount of evidence that you have genetic ethnicity from these regions, it is possible that you may not have genetic ethnicity from them at all. This is not uncommon, and as more genetic signatures are discovered with a higher confidence level, we may be able to update these Trace Regions over time."

Offline sallyyorks

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Re: Romany DNA - what would you expect to see?
« Reply #30 on: Thursday 07 September 17 10:46 BST (UK) »
About your gypsy ancestors being sent here for being "criminals", a whole lot of gypsies were rounded up and sent just because they were gypsy.  So many that, on Ancestry DNA (mostly Americans tested so far), I get all these American DNA matches with Asia South DNA, and none of them knew about their gypsy background.  In fact, a few of them thought they had Native American ancestors.

The peak of transportation, to the American colonies, came after the Transportation Act of 1717 and lasted up to the AWOI and the change over to transporting convicts to Australia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transportation_Act_1717

There was nothing in the above England and Wales act that suggested the 'rounding up' of Gypsies and transporting them just for being Gypsies. It was not a specific 'crime' to be 'a Gypsy'.
Some Gypsies were convicted of crimes, as were many others, and transported but most chose to emigrate of their own free will and mostly emigrated after the AWOI.

Offline Koolmets21

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Re: Romany DNA - what would you expect to see?
« Reply #31 on: Thursday 07 September 17 11:32 BST (UK) »
They must have assimilated and taken a popular name of whatever village they settled at. I'm not disputing the trace results, I already know that FAQ response, but just interesting how every site I've uploaded my data too seems to sprinkle in that extra designation that would suggest my family was from another area before migrating to Scotland a few hundred to a 1000 years ago.

Offline sallyyorks

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Re: Romany DNA - what would you expect to see?
« Reply #32 on: Thursday 07 September 17 12:15 BST (UK) »
They must have assimilated and taken a popular name of whatever village they settled at. I'm not disputing the trace results, I already know that FAQ response, but just interesting how every site I've uploaded my data too seems to sprinkle in that extra designation that would suggest my family was from another area before migrating to Scotland a few hundred to a 1000 years ago.

What is the earliest record you have, names dates and places, for your Campbell ancestors?

Is it one of these two?
'John W. Campbell (c1825), Rockingham Co., Virginia- Unknown Origin -  H-M82' 
'Ephriam Campbell (1845) - Scotland   - H-M82'


Shown here in the chart linked below
Campbell DNA Project - Y-DNA Classic Chart
https://www.familytreedna.com/public/Campbell?iframe=yresults

Offline Koolmets21

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Re: Romany DNA - what would you expect to see?
« Reply #33 on: Thursday 07 September 17 12:24 BST (UK) »
Only to about 1870. David Jerome Campbell, born in Rockingham Virginia. Father to my great grandfather Berkley Mathias Campbell. He was also born there.

I've been reading that it was at that exact location where a Scottish Romanichal family with the last name Campbell settled in the mid 1700s.

Piecing together with my DNA is how I became aware of such evidence for my potential descent patrilineally.

Offline sallyyorks

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Re: Romany DNA - what would you expect to see?
« Reply #34 on: Thursday 07 September 17 12:53 BST (UK) »
Only to about 1870. David Jerome Campbell, born in Rockingham Virginia. Father to my great grandfather Berkley Mathias Campbell. He was also born there.

I've been reading that it was at that exact location where a Scottish Romanichal family with the last name Campbell settled in the mid 1700s.

Piecing together with my DNA is how I became aware of such evidence for my potential descent patrilineally.

Because Campbell is not really a commonly known Romany surname and the result does not fit other Campbell results, it might also suggest that the 'father' of the 'H haplo' line was not a legitimate Campbell. In other words, the wife/mother had a child by a different man than her Campbell husband?

The bolded number below is the same tester

Campbell DNA Project - Y-DNA Classic Chart
https://www.familytreedna.com/public/Campbell?iframe=yresults
267576 John W. Campbell (c1825), Rockingham Co., Virginia- Unknown Origin - H-M82,
56137 Ephriam Campbell (1845)  - Scotland - H-M82                               
                                                                                     

H Haplo Group Project - Y-DNA Classic Chart
https://www.familytreedna.com/public/YHaploGroupH?iframe=yresults
267576 Campbell -Unknown Origin - H-M82

Offline Melissa Huelsman

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Re: Romany DNA - what would you expect to see?
« Reply #35 on: Thursday 14 September 17 12:18 BST (UK) »
I have been working on my family tree for over two years. Unfortunately I don't know the stories of the people, I only know the names and birthdates. Most of my ancestors on my mother's side were from some small village in France all the way back to the early 1600s. My Father's Side, however has been a bit of a challenge but the stories I heard from him where that his family came from County Cork Ireland, and he is Scotch Irish. What I didn't know until recently, was that my grandfather on my father's side changed his name. That's right, I could not get past my first paternal grandfather because for the last year's I had always been looking for him under the last name Cook. I found out that he and my uncle or great-uncle, we're all born with the last name Crook. I decided to do the DNA test, and then I ran it in the genmed. I used ancestry. What I found was quite surprising, as I came back with 69% Great Britain, England, Wales, Scotland, and 10% Iberian Peninsula with Spain, and Portugal. My mix was mostly Eastern European.  When I started reaching out to some of my DNA matches, someone responded asking me if I had Gypsy route. He based it on the fact that two of my last name, Romboy and Crook both showed up in Gypsy genealogy journals. I would like to know more about this, because I expected I would be French Irish and Scottish. I don't have living family to test or ask about my history, so right now, it's all a mystery.