Author Topic: Romany DNA - what would you expect to see?  (Read 102259 times)

Offline Kane Smith

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Re: Romany DNA - what would you expect to see?
« Reply #90 on: Thursday 24 May 18 16:33 BST (UK) »
Oh the x 2 grandfather dads side had boarders aswell. And they had 8 and 10 kids each time. All with double names some usual but alot very bland like john william was always passed down. Or mary.

Offline janicejo

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Re: Romany DNA - what would you expect to see?
« Reply #91 on: Thursday 24 May 18 17:25 BST (UK) »
By the time of the 1841 census my family had settled too.  I think the mining companies were willing to hire Romanies.  But with some of the censuses, it appears that my ancestors were living in work camps with other Romanies.   It seemed that some groups settled together.  I was able to follow one of my Romany DNA matches' ancestors living next door to another one of my matches.

Offline Kane Smith

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Re: Romany DNA - what would you expect to see?
« Reply #92 on: Friday 25 May 18 12:51 BST (UK) »
Haha the rest of the job descriptions were nearly all coal miners but I know there were alot of non traveller working down the pit too. I can't see any indication of any camps but the south Indian/Baloch then Mediterranean east then west europe DNA is from my mums mum side and the paper trail which was done by the same lady (we got her to do all three known grandparents) but looking last night the reason its not detailed is because she hasn't put down their residence or job only their names and how many kids. But she did with my dads mums side and My mums fathers side. I will inquire into this reason.

Offline Kane Smith

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Re: Romany DNA - what would you expect to see?
« Reply #93 on: Friday 25 May 18 14:50 BST (UK) »
Oh my gosh this sounds like my family but its my mums dads side I thought south asia was my mums mum side cos it was female line. Maybe it took it from my grandads mother.

http://www.gypsygenealogy.com/showarticle.php?article_id=107

on mine I remember the children having double names Ill have to look after work but I know one was Orlando it didnt say what the middle name was just the first letter. But was alot of children. Ill be back tomorrow with more :) :)

Thankyou so much for the tips


Offline buckyb

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Re: Romany DNA - what would you expect to see?
« Reply #94 on: Thursday 07 June 18 06:25 BST (UK) »
Hi all, I don't know if this is the correct forum for me but an unexplained 5% South Asian ethnicity in my Ancestry results has brought me here.
The main candidate in my paper trail is my unconfirmed GGG Grandfather John Thompson, a labourer, born in Bath, Somerset, UK in 1777. His son Joseph Thompson (confirmed GG Grandfather) was also born in Bath in 1815. "A Negro"  is noted on Joseph's baptismal records at St James, presumable relating to his father John.

My ethnicity results show the following:
Ancestry                              South Asia      5%

Harrappa World                     Baloch         12.06
                                           SW-Asian         .29

Dodecad V3                          West Asian      8.33
                                           South Asian     2.43
                                           SW-Asian          .07

Eurogenes K13                      West Asian      7.57
                                            South Asian    2.01
                                            East_Med        1.30

Should I pursue the possibility that John Thompson, or perhaps some other ancestor, may have had some Roma blood, or am I barking up the wrong tree?

Thanks
Rod ???
Barron,Crosby,Dunn,Gallagher, Larkin, McApion, Owers, Perry,Swinburn,Tanko,Whitford

Offline richarde1979

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Re: Romany DNA - what would you expect to see?
« Reply #95 on: Thursday 07 June 18 09:57 BST (UK) »
buckyb

The surname Thompson was present amongst England's Romany population from the late Tudor era, being first noted in East Anglia in the 1590s. Below are the records I have identified for them in the following centuries:

17th century = Yorkshire x 2, Surrey, Cambridgeshire, Leicestershire, Shropshire
18th century = Hampshire x 6, Surrey x 2, Cambridgeshire x 2, Nottinghamshire, Staffordshire, Leicestershire, Yorkshire, Suffolk
19th century = Hampshire x 5, Essex x 4, Sussex x 2, Dorset x 2, Gloucestershire x 2, Norfolk, Somerset, Leicestershire, Yorkshire, Nottinghamshire, Kent, Surrey
20th century = Hampshire x 4, U.S.A x 4, Dorset, Gloucestershire,

As you can see from the mid-18th century they were particularly associated with the New Forest in Hampshire, but were still noted travelling in many other English counties, including Somerset, and by the 20th century were also travelling across the U.S.A.

I think it would be impossible to identify your Thompson's as Romany people just on your DNA results, but that said if you do show some South Asian, but no African, it does raise the possibility certainly. I have two or three other examples of Romanies described a 'Negroes' or 'Black men' in late 18th century and early 19th century records. A clerk may have described them in such terms if they were particularly dark skinned.

Do you have your Halpogroups? If this is your direct paternal line, father to son, your Y Haplogroup might provide some extra information. H1a1a-M82 is particularly associated with European Gypsies. It almost certainly originated in the earliest Indian populations, and is still seen in rates from 80% in Eastern Europe, to around 25% in Western Europe. It is not usually found in other Europeans. The absence of the Haplogroup of course doesn't disprove Romany ancestry, but the presence of it is a big indicator. In that respect it might be more use to you then the autosomal ethnicity estimates.
Bellenger, Sebire, Soubien, Mallandain, Molle, Baudoin - Normandy/London
Deverdun, Bachelier, Hannoteau, Martin, Ledoux, Dumoutier, Lespine, Montenont, Picard, Desmarets - Paris & Picardy/Amsterdam/London
Mourgue, Chambon, Chabot - Languedoc/London

Holohan, Donnelly, McGowan/McGoan - Leitrim, Ireland/Dundee, Scotland/London.

Gordon, Troup, Grant, Watt, McInnes - Aberdeenshire, Scotland/London

Offline janicejo

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Re: Romany DNA - what would you expect to see?
« Reply #96 on: Thursday 07 June 18 21:01 BST (UK) »
Bucky - it's a good possibility that you have a connection to the Romanys of England, just go back as far as you can,  and look for DNA matches to people currently in the Roma community.   There's always a chance that an Indian person migrated to England in 1700s-1800s and is your ancestor.
       My father got his military training for WW2 in Canada wiith people from all over the commonwealth, he fondly talked of meeting Maori's from New Zealand.  He was raised to respect all people by his Scottish father and his "Romany but passing for English" mum.  I don't fault her for making that choice.  But my Dad and his siblings would have enjoyed know their heritage, as I finally get to do.

Offline buckyb

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Re: Romany DNA - what would you expect to see?
« Reply #97 on: Friday 08 June 18 07:23 BST (UK) »
Many Thanks richarde and janicejo
Your input is most appreciated.
Just to add a little more information, my full Ancestry ethnicity is Irish 55%, Europe West 21%, Great Britain 11%, Asia East 8% and Asia South 5%, trace regions are less than 1%. All the ethnicity apart from Asia South correspond to my family tree and paper trails. The Asia East relates to my great grandfather who came to Australia under the indenture labour scheme in the 1840s, he came from Xiaman (then Amoy). All my Ancestors arrived in Australia prior to 1852.
my Gedmatch ethnicities show very little African: Harappa world nil, Eurogenes Sub-Saharan .48, Dodecad Paleo_African .08.
John Thompson married an Elizabeth Monk at St James Bath in 1812. I have been unable to ascertain how their son Joseph came to Australia, he could have been sent out as a convict.
Sometime back I made contact with a dna match from Gedmatch with the surname Ford, he told me he had a lot of tinker/traveller dna in him, which didn't mean a lot to me at that time. I checked one to many matches on Gedmatch with him and came up with 45 matches on chromosome 2. I noticed that one of his y halogroup matches was H1a1 (not sure if this has any connection to H1a1a-M82).
Unfortunately my male line is broken as it goes through Joseph Thompson's daughter.
I will try to make contact with some of the 45 matches with Jim Ford to see if any belong to the Roma community. How do I find the people currently in the Roma community?
Any more help, comments or suggestions would be most appreciated.
Thanks Rod
Barron,Crosby,Dunn,Gallagher, Larkin, McApion, Owers, Perry,Swinburn,Tanko,Whitford

Offline Steve G

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Re: Romany DNA - what would you expect to see?
« Reply #98 on: Friday 08 June 18 20:33 BST (UK) »
Richarde1979; Just out of curiosity, I checked The Book of Bob (Click the little house under my avatar) for Thom(p)son. He has them listed 1588 ~ 1933 (Intermittently) in: AYR, BKM, BRK, CAM, CAR, CGN, DEV, DOR, DUR, GLA, HAM, HEF, HRT, KEN, LIN, NFK, NTH, SAL, SOM, SRY, SSX, WAL, YKS.

Interestingly, I see you have Leicester, Staffs, Notts, Glos and Essex, which he doesn't list.

Brilliant illustration of why I'm always at pains to point out to others that the BOB is not, and has never claimed to be, an exhaustive last word work  ;)

Thanks for the input  :)
GAITES (Alverstoke / Bath Pre 1850)
CURTIS (Portsmouth & 1800's Berkshire).
BURGE (Dorset, Somerset and Hampshire)
HUNTLEY (Dorset, Hampshire, Sussex, 'Surroundings')