Author Topic: Total porkies  (Read 4096 times)

Offline Andrew Tarr

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Total porkies
« on: Friday 27 November 15 18:46 GMT (UK) »
One of my grandmother's brothers was a twin, indisputably born in Anglesey late in 1876 - I have the original birth certificate of the twin sister.  The surname is fairly uncommon (Liversidge) and he had a unique set of three forenames.  His details appear correctly in all censuses except 1901, where he is aged 24, lodging in Bolton.  The very clear handwriting states that he was born in Jamaica.  I don't know of any such place in Anglesey?

My guess is that his landlord supplied the details of his lodgers, and either Harry told a fib or the landlord invented something.
Tarr, Tydeman, Liversidge, Bartlett, Young

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Offline Ayashi

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Re: Total porkies
« Reply #1 on: Friday 27 November 15 20:04 GMT (UK) »
I notice there is a "North Wales Jamaica Society". I don't know if that's coincidence or if Anglesey and Jamaica have some kind of historical link, like trade connections. Is it possible that your ancestor is of Jamaican descent (if you don't already know his origins?) and the landlord might have got confused or made some assumption based on skin tone or accent or half-remembered conversation?

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Online keyboard86

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Re: Total porkies
« Reply #2 on: Friday 27 November 15 20:39 GMT (UK) »
Hi Harry Stanley Young Liversidge was baptised the same day as his twin sister Georgina Bertha Young Liversidge 31st March 1877 Penmon, Anglesey Father Charles occ Manager of Lime Quarry, Mother Mary Emma
Keyboard86
Pelly/Pelley/Kingsbury/Challis/Nalder/Rochester/Raydenbow

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Offline Andrew Tarr

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Re: Total porkies
« Reply #3 on: Friday 27 November 15 23:17 GMT (UK) »
Thank you, kb86, for adding all the details which I intentionally omitted from my OP.  No, there is no way I can think of for my ancestor having any non-British connection with anywhere in the Caribbean - though an aunt of his married into a Liverpool family with trading links to Peru and Chile.  There are occasional Jamaicas scattered about the British Isles, but I am lost for any reason to connect one of them with HSY.
Tarr, Tydeman, Liversidge, Bartlett, Young

Offline Ayashi

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Re: Total porkies
« Reply #4 on: Friday 27 November 15 23:19 GMT (UK) »
What about other people in the household? Is it possible that his place of birth was swapped with someone else's by accident?

Online keyboard86

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Re: Total porkies
« Reply #5 on: Friday 27 November 15 23:39 GMT (UK) »
What about other people in the household? Is it possible that his place of birth was swapped with someone else's by accident?

No do not think so Mary Emma is a Widow in 1881 with children including a Herbert C b 1868 Flintshire in 1871 with Charles Kinder Liversidge
Census ref RG10/5642/88/5
Keyboard86

Oops just a thought you meant when Harry S Y was 24!
Pelly/Pelley/Kingsbury/Challis/Nalder/Rochester/Raydenbow

UK Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Ayashi

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Re: Total porkies
« Reply #6 on: Saturday 28 November 15 00:48 GMT (UK) »
Yes, I was indeed referring to the original query.

I did also just have a mental image of him being away that day and the landlord asking the other lodgers if they knew where he was born. Oh yeah, I think it was... er... Jamaica or something, right? nudge nudge wink wink snigger snigger.  ::)

Offline Ruskie

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Re: Total porkies
« Reply #7 on: Saturday 28 November 15 01:07 GMT (UK) »
Have a look at others on the same census page, and maybe the pages either side. Are any of them said to be born in Anglesey? It may be an enumerator error when writing up the lists, maybe copying from the wrong line or page(?) and Stanley's pob was mistakenly written as Jamaica, which was intended for another person.

It doesn't really matter for your research as you already have his birth date and place, so it's obviously an error, and we can only speculate as to how it came about.  :)

Offline Andrew Tarr

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Re: Total porkies
« Reply #8 on: Saturday 28 November 15 09:33 GMT (UK) »
Yes, I was indeed referring to the original query.

I did also just have a mental image of him being away that day and the landlord asking the other lodgers if they knew where he was born. Oh yeah, I think it was... er... Jamaica or something, right? nudge nudge wink wink snigger snigger.  ::)
That's a scenario that had occurred to me too.  But are we always too ready to assume that what we find on the census is all tickety-boo?  That everyone was too scared of consequences if they were found to be fabricating?  Why not just enter the odd silly one?
How many cases are there of double counting?  I know of at least one - three members of a middle-class family recorded twice, in places about ten miles apart.
Tarr, Tydeman, Liversidge, Bartlett, Young