Is William Roberts and son Samuel, Mithian Downs, Saint Agnes, Cornwall, family

[KGarrad]

Civil Registration, and hence Birth, Marriage & Death Certificate, only came into being on 1st July 1837.

You need certain reference details: Year, Quarter, Registration District, Volume No and Page No.
Best place to find these is on FreeBMD (www.freebmd.org.uk).

You can then apply through the GRO:
https://www.gov.uk/order-copy-birth-death-marriage-certificate

Cost is £9.25, which includes postage & packing.


I would post on one of the Cornwall boards, I think?

[mogwood]

Johan,
Clearly you have done considerable searching already, so will have found another William Roberts (widowed) and family on the 1851 census, also in Mithian parish, Truro, Cornwall.  The reference is HO107  piece 1909 folio 588 p.16.

This would give me pause for further checking, because the names and ages of the family are similar to those you quote on the 1841 census, with the addition of Nanny, who could have been elsewhere in 1841.  Actually there is a Nanny, b.1835 appears to be living at the local pub with 2 other children, (which may or may not be relevant  ).   The age differences are not so great; I have seen more variances in ages many times in my own searches.

Alternatively  the family in the 1851 census could be related to the one you have in the 1841 census, possibly their fathers were cousins - hence the use of same family names.  There are certainly plenty of Roberts families to choose from

Sorry I can't give any advice on professional researchers, as I've never used one.  You seem to be doing quite well for yourself up to now.  If you really want to employ someone, possibly the Cornwall FHS might be able to help.  Their main site is here: http://www.cornwallfhs.com/ , or the OPC mentioned earlier might be able to refer you to someone.


 

[JohanVisser]

Thank you again KGarrad and mogwood for your inputs and suggestions.  I am fairly new to this and I am signing off for now because during the week work (bread and butter) doesn't allow for research, etc. This coming weekend I tackle it again and see how far I can get with your suggestions and direction. May you have a splendid joyful wonderful week. Regards. Johan

[mogwood]

Hello Johan,
Since last week I've had a look at a few things, to see if it is possible to prove/disprove the families we have on the English 1841 and 1851 census returns, references mentioned previously.

I've found a few bits and pieces that might help - or might not!      I have concentrated my searches on people with a birth place of St Agnes, Cornwall.

The children

Louisa b.abt 1832.  I can find only one baptism (transcribed) for 8 April 1832.  Parents William & Mary Ann Roberts.  Search range was 1830 - 1850.

William b.abt 1834.  Many options, but only one with parents William & Mary Ann, bap 21 June 1834

James b.abt 1838.  3 options, 2 for 1837 and 1 for 1838.  Bap 23 July 1839 at St Agnes.  Parents William and Mary (not Mary Ann).   Birth registration Dec. qtr. 1838 Truro v.9 p.322.

Samuel b.1841.  2 records found,  March qtr 1841 Truro v.9 p.317 and Dec qtr 1841 Truro v.9 p.308. as mentioned previously.

There is a death registration for a Samuel Roberts in 1850 June qtr. Truro v.9 p.223.  No age given, so could have been any Samuel amongst many.   Could not find a burial.

English census

I checked a couple of the children through the census records to see whether they stayed in England/Cornwall.  It seems that most of them did.

James can be found in all records up to 1891 (and probably later, I didn't re-check for others).
In 1861 he is with sister Nancy, now married to a Mr Cocking, a tin miner in Mithian Downs.

I cannot find another Samuel b.1841, St Agnes, in the census, beyond the 1851 record that we have.

There is a public tree on the Ancestry site, that has Samuel Roberts listed.  It seems that he moved to California, USA at some stage - no details of his travel are given.  None of the details in the tree tie up with the 1841 or 1851 census, i.e. siblings, parents' names, even his birth date - BUT by chance, they have what seems like the correct probate record following his death on 22 Oct 1869 age 29, a single man - because the probate was granted to his sister Nanny Cocking  So, the Samuel shown in the 1851 census ended up mining in USA.

We can therefore discount the Samuel & family in the 1851 census.  Only x-dozen more to go .... 


p.s.  Forgot to mention that the probate date was 11 October 1882 at the Principal Registry.

[mogwood]

I wonder whether you need to search wider than just Cornwall.  I can understand what you say about the mining connection, but there were many other mining areas in England, in the northern counties, some in the midlands, and in Wales, as well as the Cornish tin mines. 

Accepting that 1841 is the true year of birth for Samuel, then there are 31 births recorded in England for that year for Samuel Roberts, or a combination of Samuel and another forename.  There could be a couple more born late in the year that weren't registered till 1842.

I can't find anything in passenger lists;  doesn't mean they're not there, it just means I can't find anything.   

I suppose there's no way that you can find out the names of the children who were passengers with their father William?  Or possibly track what happened to William and family after he immigrated?   

Is there any more info on Samuel's marriage certificate that could help?  Maybe one of his siblings acted as a witness?

Sorry, can't add anything else at the moment.

[Docrob]

I have just seen your message, and think I can answer your question.

I believe my 2x great grandfather James Roberts was an older brother of your Samuel, so we share 3x great grandparents William and Sophia. They were from Goudhurst in Kent, but in 1849 they emigrated to the Cape with their youngest five children, Harriett, George, Caroline, Samuel and Walton, as well as their eldest son, also William (then in his late 20s). They received financial support through the assisted emigration scheme, and this is mentioned in several parish documents. I'm pretty sure therefore that this is the family that arrived on the Eclipse. James and 2 other adult siblings, Elizabeth and Jane, remained in England.

I'm also convinced that this is the Roberts family that settled in the Knysna area, as there are marriages and burials in the church records there for the 4 sons that are generally good matches for their ages etc., and also burials for William senior and Sophia. Incidentally the Goudhurst parish register gives Samuel's date of birth as 13th January 1842.