Author Topic: Emma Spruce nee Hyatt  (Read 12645 times)

Offline smudwhisk

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Re: Emma Spruce nee Hyatt
« Reply #9 on: Tuesday 01 December 15 11:22 GMT (UK) »
I'm not sure what if any background you are seeking re Emma BIRCH who you say may be the mother of Emma HYATT.
I do note the mother placing the "contact me" advertisement in 1877 which you have mentioned, requested reply to Binalong PO.

Hi Sue, I'd like "kill off" Emma Birch, meaning it would be nice to find out what happened to her after the births of her two children.  She and John Hyatt would appear to possibly have parted company at some point, or that's my interpretation of the newspaper ad from 1877.  Mind you its just possible she died young, along with son John, and the deaths were registered, at which point John hooked up with his brother after his brother's wife died in 1882.
(KENT) Lingwell, Rayment (BUCKS) Read, Hutchins (SRY) Costin, Westbrook (DOR) Gibbs, Goreing (DUR) Green (ESX) Rudland, Malden, Rouse, Boosey (FIFE) Foulis, Russell (NFK) Johnson, Farthing, Purdy, Barsham (GLOS) Collett, Morris, Freebury, May, Kirkman (HERTS) Winchester, Linford (NORTHANTS) Bird, Brimley, Chater, Wilford, Read, Chapman, Jeys, Marston, Lumley (WILTS) Arden, Whatley, Batson, Gleed, Greenhill (SOM) Coombs, Watkins (RUT) Stafford (BERKS) Sansom, Angel, Young, Stratton, Weeks, Day

Offline majm

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Offline smudwhisk

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Re: Emma Spruce nee Hyatt
« Reply #11 on: Tuesday 01 December 15 11:26 GMT (UK) »
Are you discounting this birth?

NSW 1869 #9634, registered at Cassilis
Emma M HYATT
Parents John, Emma

Death certificates often have incorrect information and it may be that Emma had a later connection with Tamworth, leading the informant to believe that Tamworth was her birthplace.
Cassilis is in the same general area as the Hunter Valley towns mentioned.  Certainly closer than the BIRCH/BURCH family in the Binalong/Picton areas.

Just a thought - Judith

Hi Judith, no I'm not discounting that birth as that's the family I'm interested in.  Just hoping to find something that would definitely confirm that Emma Spruce was Emma Maria Hyatt because of the discrepancies on her death certificate.  I do appreciate, as I mentioned in my original post, that the informant, namely her husband, may have been misinformed.  If she'd used her middle name on her marriage and subsequently, then that would have been more useful. :-\

According to Emma Maria Hyatt's birth certificate, Emma Birch was born in Picton so that is going to most likely be the correct family but as its the Hyatt family I'm following forward, I'm not researching the Birch family other than to confirm Emma Birch's parentage.  As the parentage details are also missing from her marriage certificate to John Hyatt, all I can really go on is the details from her daughter's birth certificate, although I will have a look at JM's suggestions earlier in this thread. 

The missing parentage on the parent's marriage certificate isn't as big a problem as for the 1887 marriage, for me anyway, because their daughter's birth certificate confirms where John Hyatt was born and there is only one John Hyatt born in Enfield at the correct time so I know who he was - namely the brother of my 2xGGrandmother.

http://www.whitepages.com.au/business-listing/uniting-church-in-australia-926089/raymond-terrace-nsw

Uniting Church in Australia's NSW archives office :
https://assembly.uca.org.au/resources/historical-reference-committee-and-archives

http://trove.nla.gov.au/work/11479459?selectedversion=NBD27565072

Cheers,  JM

Thanks JM, I'll have a look.  Was obviously entering the wrong search words into Google. :-X
(KENT) Lingwell, Rayment (BUCKS) Read, Hutchins (SRY) Costin, Westbrook (DOR) Gibbs, Goreing (DUR) Green (ESX) Rudland, Malden, Rouse, Boosey (FIFE) Foulis, Russell (NFK) Johnson, Farthing, Purdy, Barsham (GLOS) Collett, Morris, Freebury, May, Kirkman (HERTS) Winchester, Linford (NORTHANTS) Bird, Brimley, Chater, Wilford, Read, Chapman, Jeys, Marston, Lumley (WILTS) Arden, Whatley, Batson, Gleed, Greenhill (SOM) Coombs, Watkins (RUT) Stafford (BERKS) Sansom, Angel, Young, Stratton, Weeks, Day

Offline majm

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Re: Emma Spruce nee Hyatt
« Reply #12 on: Tuesday 01 December 15 11:32 GMT (UK) »
Directly from NSW BDM's own website

http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/Pages/family-history/registry-records.aspx

"...
The task of reconciling the Early Church Records and amending the marriage registrations was never finalised. The Registry's records from these years are not complete and it can be worthwhile for genealogists to contact the relevant church to find details missing from a marriage certificate "


Cheers,  JM

The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
Random Acts of Kindness Given Freely are never Worthless for they are Priceless.
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Offline smudwhisk

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Re: Emma Spruce nee Hyatt
« Reply #13 on: Tuesday 01 December 15 12:03 GMT (UK) »
Thanks JM, I'll try contacting them but it'll very much depend on whether they'll check Emma's parent's names for free or whether they require a fee, since the latter is a bit impossible from the UK.  With a bit of luck if I word it in a particular way and they confirm the details, it'll be obvious that they have checked the original and not just agreed with me (I'm a bit cynical about getting things checked for free, but that's 'cos over here the CofE and many non-denominational cemeteries do like to charge for everything. ;)
(KENT) Lingwell, Rayment (BUCKS) Read, Hutchins (SRY) Costin, Westbrook (DOR) Gibbs, Goreing (DUR) Green (ESX) Rudland, Malden, Rouse, Boosey (FIFE) Foulis, Russell (NFK) Johnson, Farthing, Purdy, Barsham (GLOS) Collett, Morris, Freebury, May, Kirkman (HERTS) Winchester, Linford (NORTHANTS) Bird, Brimley, Chater, Wilford, Read, Chapman, Jeys, Marston, Lumley (WILTS) Arden, Whatley, Batson, Gleed, Greenhill (SOM) Coombs, Watkins (RUT) Stafford (BERKS) Sansom, Angel, Young, Stratton, Weeks, Day

Offline majm

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Re: Emma Spruce nee Hyatt
« Reply #14 on: Tuesday 01 December 15 21:44 GMT (UK) »
Thanks JM, I'll try contacting them but it'll very much depend on whether they'll check Emma's parent's names for free or whether they require a fee, since the latter is a bit impossible from the UK.  With a bit of luck if I word it in a particular way and they confirm the details, it'll be obvious that they have checked the original and not just agreed with me (I'm a bit cynical about getting things checked for free, but that's 'cos over here the CofE and many non-denominational cemeteries do like to charge for everything. ;)

Well, as I understand it, in NSW, Church Records are just that, Church Records.   They are not automatically Public Records.    I see nothing wrong in today's custodians of Church Records expecting to collect funds for the upkeep and preservation of their organisation's private records.   I see nothing wrong in today's custodians of Official Records expecting to collect funds for the upkeep of their records either ..... so NSW BDM collects fees/charges for providing copy of their historic BDM records, NSW State Records collects fees/charges for providing copy of their archival records ....  Family History Groups of volunteers have fees and charges for the services they provide in searching their archival materials ....

I don't see the impossibility of a fee being remitted from the U.K.   You could of course undertake to make a donation in the UK to your local Uniting Church if you are concerned about exchange rates.    :) 

:)   As an aside, do please send the Uniting Church Archivist in NSW a copy of the document you currently hold, as it may well have minor clues to help them locate their original register. 

Cheers,  JM
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
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Offline sparrett

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Re: Emma Spruce nee Hyatt
« Reply #15 on: Tuesday 01 December 15 22:21 GMT (UK) »


Hi Sue, I'd like "kill off" Emma Birch, meaning it would be nice to find out what happened to her after the births of her two children.  She and John Hyatt would appear to possibly have parted company at some point, or that's my interpretation of the newspaper ad from 1877.  Mind you its just possible she died young, along with son John, and the deaths were registered, at which point John hooked up with his brother after his brother's wife died in 1882.


If you find it difficult to follow JM's suggestions, then I feel you should explore the pathway of researching the BIRCH family, even if you do not see it as part of your agenda.

There were siblings for the Emma I have located (Parents James and Ann BIRCH/BURCH)

Sarah possibly married a Bernard DEVINE and a man of that name  died in Binalong.

Death notices etc often contain family information and I would be seeking as much information as possible to connect your Sarah to this family (or not)

Sue
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Offline majm

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Re: Emma Spruce nee Hyatt
« Reply #16 on: Tuesday 01 December 15 22:34 GMT (UK) »
I agree Sue with your suggestion if it is too difficult to chase up the elusive blanks on that marriage cert .....   

Re Bernard DEVINE ....

NSW ER 1870 YASS PLAINS
Bernard DEVINE, freehold, Blakeney Creek
William DEVINE, freehold, Blakeney Creek
William DEVINE, residence, Oolong Creek

Cheers,  JM

The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
Random Acts of Kindness Given Freely are never Worthless for they are Priceless.
Qui scit et non docet.    Qui docet et non vivit.    Qui nescit et non interrogat.   
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
I do not have a face book or a twitter account.

Offline smudwhisk

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Re: Emma Spruce nee Hyatt
« Reply #17 on: Tuesday 01 December 15 22:55 GMT (UK) »
Well, as I understand it, in NSW, Church Records are just that, Church Records.   They are not automatically Public Records.    I see nothing wrong in today's custodians of Church Records expecting to collect funds for the upkeep and preservation of their organisation's private records.   I see nothing wrong in today's custodians of Official Records expecting to collect funds for the upkeep of their records either ..... so NSW BDM collects fees/charges for providing copy of their historic BDM records, NSW State Records collects fees/charges for providing copy of their archival records ....  Family History Groups of volunteers have fees and charges for the services they provide in searching their archival materials ....

I don't see the impossibility of a fee being remitted from the U.K.   You could of course undertake to make a donation in the UK to your local Uniting Church if you are concerned about exchange rates.    :) 

OK I've taken several deep breaths after reading this reply because to say I was insensed by it would be an understatement.

Just because someone says they hope that there wouldn't be a charge for checking already known information, does not mean that individual expects everything for free and wouldn't dream of paying out for things.

Sorry JM, but considering there are no money orders available for purchase in the UK to send to Australia and its not possible to easily obtain a cheque drawn in a foreign currency (it may in fact not be possible anyway) on a UK bank other than possibly at considerable cost, I shall not be pursuing confirming the missing blanks on that certificate on what is a distant sideline.  If it had been a direct ancestor, I would have not thought twice about doing that, but if the descendants of the individuals concerned appear to have not bothered trying to confirm the detaiils (and nothing on their tree suggests they have even though the live in Australia), I really do not see why I should should have to pay out further to confirm what is a sideline and therefore doesn't affect my own directline research.  I already have purchased from NSW several copy certificates and certificate transcripts on this particular line and I'm afraid I have no intention of spending any more of limited funds when that money would be better spent confirming my own directline research.

And yes I suppose I could provide a donation to a UK based United Reform Church, but that is something that my grandparents did for many years as both were elders in their local church.  However, I suspect that the URC in Australia if they expected a donation, would prefer it was given to them and not a local church in the UK.

While I appreciate that unlike in the UK, Trove provides free access to your historic newspapers, and some other records are available for free on Archives websites, the vast majority of Australian records are far more expensive to obtain copies of, even with what is currently a favourable exchange rate, than their UK equivalents and it doesn't help that so many Australian organisations have not yet bothered to provide online facilities for payment.  If they did, then those of us overseas may make more use of their services looking at sidelines.

I may at some point follow Sue's suggestion of following Emma Birch's siblings to see if any confirmation can be found without requiring any excessive expenditure.  But after 17 years of research and a fairly substantial amount of expenditure (which I was and still am happy to do as I enjoy the hobby), my priorities still remain in researching my own directline brickwalls and not spending an inderterminate amount on sidelines overseas.  While I am happy to spend some and enjoy following them forward, it is not, and I shouldn't be criticised for saying so, a priority.  Considering people who descend from such lines appear to be reluctant to spend money in their own country researching these and other lines, its not up to me to confirm these things.  While I would like to, I shall leave them with a "maybe" comment.

Thanks to all for your help but I think I shall leave it there.
(KENT) Lingwell, Rayment (BUCKS) Read, Hutchins (SRY) Costin, Westbrook (DOR) Gibbs, Goreing (DUR) Green (ESX) Rudland, Malden, Rouse, Boosey (FIFE) Foulis, Russell (NFK) Johnson, Farthing, Purdy, Barsham (GLOS) Collett, Morris, Freebury, May, Kirkman (HERTS) Winchester, Linford (NORTHANTS) Bird, Brimley, Chater, Wilford, Read, Chapman, Jeys, Marston, Lumley (WILTS) Arden, Whatley, Batson, Gleed, Greenhill (SOM) Coombs, Watkins (RUT) Stafford (BERKS) Sansom, Angel, Young, Stratton, Weeks, Day