An Aussie seeking advice on UK information please

[Eric Hatfield]

I have sought advice before on this forum regarding my Grandfather (see My mysterious grandfather - Ernest McQuillan Hargraves). Due to my lack of progress, I decided to try DNA testing, and now have my autosomal DNA results (from FTDNA). I now have hundreds of matches, and I'm trying to work my way through investigating those connections, and I would appreciate some advice please.

1. First I want to ask about my approach. I don't know my grandfather's ancestry, and I think he changed his name, so I have little to go on. This is what I am trying.

• I have found a third cousin on the other (paternal) side of the family who has tested, so I know 5 chromosomes where he and I match. Therefore I need to test matches on other chromosomes to find my maternal grandfather.
• I think it is likely his ancestry is from UK, so I am looking at the family trees of people who match me on other chromosomes, to see if I can find someone who could have been my grandfather before he changed his name. Most matches live in the US, but many have family trees that go back to UK.
• To do this, I go back to about 1750-1800 (the dates I think a common ancestor might have been born) and try to identify all descendants until I arrive at the time my grandfather was both (about 1880), and can eliminate those descendants - or hopefully find a possible.

It is like the proverbial needle in a haystack, and could involve checking out hundreds (or more!) of possibilities, but I can't think of anything better. But I would be interested in any ideas people have to do it better please. My task is perhaps a little like an adoptee looking for their biological parents whose names are unknown, except I am looking two generations back.

2. I'm finding it very difficult to trace English descendants forward. For a start, working forwards is harder than working backwards. But also, with the large numbers of possibilities I have to check, I cannot afford to keep buying certificates, so I have to rely on whatever I can get online via Family Search, FreeCEN and Free BMD, Ancestry.com and The Genealogist, and they don't always have enough information to be sure I have identified the "right" people. The same names keep re-appearing, sometimes even the same named couples, and it is hard to separate them.

I'm wondering, please, if anyone has any advice or any other means to make identification (e.g. of parents of bride & groom), any other online sites I may have missed, that would help me please?

Thanks.

[weste]

freereg for baptisms, marriages and deaths. Transcriptions done by volunteers. There is a group ancestrydna on Facebook, people have tested With different sites,ftdna,ancestry,23 and me. Have you put your results into gedmatch.com? It's a free site, again people have tested with different companies,so more matches and there are some analysis tools you can try. Some people put there results into spread sheets.

[davidft]

A couple of observations

1. I see from your old thread (2013) that you mention possible Irish ancestors. This year more Irish records have come online so it may be worth revisiting them if you have not done so recently

2. You talk about your grandfather. I assume this is your paternal grandfather and if so you might want to consider a yDNA test at 37 or 67 markers

3.  Re the autosomal tests they only really give meaningful data back for about five generations so any links to 1750-1800 that you mention could be quite tenuous. However, you have tested with ftDNA and they give you results that include the predicted closeness of the match. My suggestion would be to rank them from the closest onwards and work on those with the closest matches first

4. As a way of extending your options you could upload your results to a comparison site like www.gedmatch.com which will compare your results with people who have compared with other companies as well as ftDNA thus giving hopefully more possible matches to explore

(I should also mention here that I have not read the old thread in any details so apologies if I have missed something important)

[Eric Hatfield]

Hi David, thanks for your response, and for checking the previous thread.

I am less sure about the Irish connection now. A fellow Aussie who might have been my third cousin (we both might have been descended from the same McQuillan family) also did the DNA test and the results were negative - some DNA in common, but too small to tell and probably more like 7-10 generations ago. Nevertheless, some of my matches have Irish ancestry, so I will need to use the records you mention, so thanks for the tip.

Unfortunately he is my maternal grandfather, so neither Y DNA or mtDNA will pick him up.

Most of my matches are at fourth or even fifth cousin level. My third cousin (once removed) on my father's side, and I, have common ancestors born about 1810 & 1814, so I figure I need to go back before 1800 to pick up a possible common ancestor for my grandfather. I know the evidence is getting thin at that level, but on some chromosomes I have a lot of matches, so it may work - and what else do I have?

Yes, I have put my data on Gedmatch. The next steps I am considering are (1) doing the test on Ancestry to get into a larger database, and (2) asking a first cousin to test so I can identify which parts of chromosomes come from which side of the family. But in the meantime, I have to try to do the best with the little I have.

Thanks.

[barryd]

The are numerous people looking for him. I would be more worried if I was the only one. This is Google and not ancestry or FindMyPast. 

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=%22Ernest+McQuillan+Hargraves%22

[Eric Hatfield]

Hi Barry,

I'm not sure if I understand you, I'm sorry. That discussion you found on Google was the one I referenced in my first post, and consisted of a number of helpful people here trying to assist me. I actually haven't ever come across anyone else searching for him.

[hurworth]

I've looked at your earlier thread and you have said that he married twice. If you have a descendant of your mother's half siblings who would test it would be helpful. 

If you test a full cousin (and no one else) then all you know is that your mutual snips are from the same set of grandparents.   However in this situation, with say a half-cousin who has a different grandmother from you, your mutual genes should be from this grandfather.

It may also help if you cast the net wider - your siblings or other cousins will have inherited genes from him that you haven't.

[Eric Hatfield]

I've looked at your earlier thread and you have said that he married twice. If you have a descendant of your mother's half siblings who would test it would be helpful. 

If you test a full cousin (and no one else) then all you know is that your mutual snips are from the same set of grandparents.   However in this situation, with say a half-cousin who has a different grandmother from you, your mutual genes should be from this grandfather.

It may also help if you cast the net wider - your siblings or other cousins will have inherited genes from him that you haven't.

Thanks for those ideas. I do have a couple of options that fit what you have said, and I think I will see if they are willing.

My difficulty is using the information I have from DNA - if someone matches me, I still have to work out how they match, and it seems it will involve a huge amount of checking the many ancestors of matches to see if I can find someone who may be him. But I think you are right that I need to narrow the search down a bit by getting a relative or two to test. Thanks again.

[hurworth]

• I have found a third cousin on the other (paternal) side of the family who has tested, so I know 5 chromosomes where he and I match. Therefore I need to test matches on other chromosomes to find my maternal grandfather.
• I think it is likely his ancestry is from UK, so I am looking at the family trees of people who match me on other chromosomes, to see if I can find someone who could have been my grandfather before he changed his name. Most matches live in the US, but many have family trees that go back to UK.
  

With regard to your third cousin, you know that the genes you share came to you from your father.   However, you have the other strand of that chromosome that you received from your mother.   So don't discount people just because they match at the same point.   If you find someone who matches at that point and they don't match your third cousin, then you know that match is via your mother (but that on its own doesn't tell you whether this part is from her mother or father).

It is only as good as everyone's trees.  We're looking for a mystery ancestor too.   I thought our tree was pretty good, but when you get down to the nitty gritty it's not.  All you need is an unknown ancestor, plus a gt-grandfather for whom you've found no records prior to immigration, no birth or baptism record for his mother-in-law etc ....lots of holes.   But you are also relying on the accuracy of the trees of others.

It's a waiting game.   More and more people are starting to test, so over time you will be able to get a genetic picture of him which hopefully will lead to the corresponding paperwork.