Author Topic: Dougald & Harriet M MacGillivray  (Read 4094 times)

Offline Christine53

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Re: Dougald & Harriet M MacGillivray
« Reply #27 on: Thursday 20 August 20 20:58 BST (UK) »
Alfred Bethell appears to have died in 1941. The probate index entry states that Alfred ,  of 66 London Road , Tunbridge Wells, last seen alive  20 June 1941 , was found dead 6 August 1941 in Bath. Probate was granted to his brother John Henry Bethell, Baron of Romford. There is a lot in the newspapers about his mysterious death but there is no mention of a wife. One article refers to a son and possibly a daughter.  It appears he had a wife , Kate Elizabeth Bethell , who died in 1930 .

" Kate Elizabeth Bethell of 16 Prior Park Buildings Bath , ( wife of Alfred Bethell  ) , died 14 Nov 1930. Probate to Eric McKinley Bethell , motor engineer."
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Offline *Sandra*

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Re: Dougald & Harriet M MacGillivray
« Reply #28 on: Friday 21 August 20 08:36 BST (UK) »


Eric McKinley Bethell - mmn  GODDEN 
GRO Reference: 1899  M Quarter in Brighton Volume 02B  Page 25

Sandra
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Offline lydiaann

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Re: Dougald & Harriet M MacGillivray
« Reply #29 on: Friday 21 August 20 16:11 BST (UK) »
Thanks to you both, Christine and Sandra.  And, oh dear, this pulls up a whole new scenario!  I'm now wondering if Harriet married Alfred Bethell after his wife, Kate Elizabeth died?  Or even, did they marry at all?  And if there was talk of a daughter, that would be Freda Frances but, as she was born in 1914, why did they not know about her?  In any case, it looks as though she was Harriet's step-daughter.  His relationships seem very strange.  There is a marriage to Kate Elizabeth (according to the 1911 census) in about 1897, yet on the 1911 census he is shown as Single.  (Eric McKinley Bethell was born in 1899 in Brighton, Sussex.  Freda Frances was born in Steyning, Sussex in 1914.  Yet Alfred seemed to have lived in a different county in every census!)  It seems as though, once more, a load of research needs to take place!  Just when I thought I was closing the door finally on Harriet!!

thanks again for all your research.  As always, Watch This Space.  ;D ;D
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Offline lydiaann

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Re: Dougald & Harriet M MacGillivray
« Reply #30 on: Saturday 22 August 20 15:54 BST (UK) »
Well, what a mystery man!

All evidence - including a marriage record - shows that Alfred was married in 1897 to Kate Elizabeth Godden.  They had a son, Eric McKinley Bethell, in 1899 in Brighton.  In the 1911 census, Eric is a boarder at Monkton Combe Junior School, Combe Down, Bath.  On that same census, Alfred is shown as single and living at Beechwood, Widcombe Hill.  There is no 1911 census showing Kate Elizabeth.

Also in 1911, a PO Directory for 1911 shows Alfred Bethell, J.P. Essex, living at Beechwood, Widcombe Hill...which is the same place the body of Alfred Bethell is found in 1841. (See Below).   Several other male Bethells are also noted in that directory.

In 1913, Alfred J. Bethell is shown as a JP. in Storrington Abbey, Sussex.  There is also a 1913 Directory entry for an Alfred Bethell at Herne Lee, Harrington Road, Preston (part of Brighton and Hove).  He's shown as a JP in Storrington Abbey, Sussex still in 1915.

In November 1914, Freda Frances Bethell is born to Harriet Mary MacGillivray (shown as MacGillwray on the GRO Record) in Steyning, Brighton. 

Kate Elizabeth Bethell died in 1930. Probate is granted to her son, Eric.  She is noted as being the wife of Alfred Bethell.

In 1939, Alfred Bethell is shown to be living with Harriet Bethell and Freda Frances Bethell.  His status is that he is 'married'.  They are living in Royal Tunbridge Wells.

In 1941, Alfred's body is found in "The Bungalow, Beechwood Macauley Buildings, Bath", but no date of death was ascertained.  (As an aside, these buildings are above the 1 million mark on Rightmove, so quite exclusive).  Probate is granted to the Rt Hon John Henry Bethell (John Henry Bethell, 1st Baron Bethell (23 September 1861 27 May 1945), known as Sir John Bethell, 1st Baronet, from 1911 to 1922, was a British banker and Liberal politician.)  Obviously he is a relative, but how close/distant is not yet clear.  His son Eric is not mentioned, he died in 1983 in Bath.  It seems strange he would not be granted Probate.

I'm wondering whether we have one single Alfred Bethell or are there 2??  Increasingly, the Alfred Bethell, JP has an extra initial J.  And after all this, there is still no record of Harriet MacGillivray marrying Alfred Bethell, despite being described as widow on her Probate.

If there are any Bethell's out there, HELP!!
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Offline lydiaann

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Re: Dougald & Harriet M MacGillivray
« Reply #31 on: Saturday 22 August 20 15:55 BST (UK) »
Sorry...finger problems.  I shall continue....

All other Chatters, thanks for your help and only take the time if you are sure you HAVE time; you've done lots already.

Stay safe!
lydiaann
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Offline Christine53

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Re: Dougald & Harriet M MacGillivray
« Reply #32 on: Saturday 22 August 20 16:07 BST (UK) »
Well, what a mystery man!



I'm wondering whether we have one single Alfred Bethell or are there 2??  Increasingly, the Alfred Bethell, JP has an extra initial J.  And after all this, there is still no record of Harriet MacGillivray marrying Alfred Bethell, despite being described as widow on her Probate.

If there are any Bethell's out there, HELP!!

The entry in the Probate Calendar, from which I quoted , gives an address for Alfred Bethell as
66 London Road , Tunbridge Wells ( not withstanding that he died in Bath ). That is the address in 1939 for Alfred , Harriet and Freda so I don't think there are two Alfred Bethells.
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Offline lydiaann

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Re: Dougald & Harriet M MacGillivray
« Reply #33 on: Saturday 22 August 20 16:17 BST (UK) »
Yes, I understand that.  It's just that there appear to be too many Alfred Bethells in the City Directories in the same year (1913) in Sussex!  I think I need to 'park' this one overnight in my brain - what's left of it now I seem to have completely fried it ;D - and have another go in a few days.  I think we are all on the right track - it's just that he seems to have led a double life somewhere along the line.  I wonder if he felt it was all worth it at the very end...
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Offline Christine53

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Re: Dougald & Harriet M MacGillivray
« Reply #34 on: Saturday 22 August 20 16:25 BST (UK) »
It might be worth getting hold of his will to see if he mentions Harriet and Freda. I can't help thinking that he may have disappeared from their lives without them knowing where he'd gone - an awful thought.

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Offline lydiaann

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Re: Dougald & Harriet M MacGillivray
« Reply #35 on: Sunday 23 August 20 14:38 BST (UK) »
I am of the same view, but did he do the same to his wife and son?  Although it looks as though the latter also lived in Bath, he certainly died there so why give the Probate to his brother (see below)?  Also, although Kate is mentioned as the wife, did he in fact abandon HER when he had the relationship and a child by Harriet?  It might explain John Henry acting for Probate rather than Eric McKinley Bethell.  It might also explain why Alfred described himself as Single on the 1911 census.

Also, I've discovered the relationship of John Henry Bethell to our Alfred.  He was Alfred's elder brother, the 2nd of 5 sons (Alfred was the 6th).  It seems John Henry was also a Surveyor and, according to the 1911 census, an 'employer', so maybe that's why Alfred went into the profession also. 

I'm beginning to think, because of all this and the to-ing and fro-ing, that Alfred was a man who didn't know what he wanted.  As far as his death is concerned, it could be he was living on his own and simply died of natural causes. 

I think I'll just leave this family to their own devices now, especially as we are talking about a relationship that is quite distal to the main trunk of the tree!

Thanks for your insights, Chatters.  Stay safe, stay healthy

lydiaann
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