Author Topic: Elizabeth TOMS baptism Combe St Nicholas c. 1791  (Read 2881 times)

Offline ndmhine

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 23
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Elizabeth TOMS baptism Combe St Nicholas c. 1791
« on: Wednesday 09 December 15 16:36 GMT (UK) »
Elizabeth TOMS baptism Combe St Nicholas c. 1791

Hi,

I am looking for a baptism record, and any closely-related records, for my ancestor Elizabeth Toms. She married John Meech in Sydling St Nicholas, Dorset in 1811. On census returns she consistently puts her birthplace as Combe St Nicholas, Somerset, and ages indicating birth circa 1791.

I am unable to find anywhere online where I can access baptisms for Combe St Nicholas. If anyone has access, I would be hugely grateful to know anything there is available about her, her parents or her siblings.

Many thanks indeed

Nick

Online Girl Guide

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 4,374
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Elizabeth TOMS baptism Combe St Nicholas c. 1791
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 27 December 15 00:36 GMT (UK) »
Have you considered getting in touch with the Somerset & Dorset Family History Society or the Somerset Records Office?

Links below

http://www.sdfhs.org/

http://www1.somerset.gov.uk/archives/
Ashford: Somerset, London
England: Devon, London, New Zealand
Holdway: Wiltshire
Hooper: Bristol, Somerset
Knowling: Devon, London
Southcott: Devon, China
Strong: Wiltshire
Watson: Cambridgeshire
White: Bristol
Windo - Gloucestershire, Somerset, Wiltshire

Offline dee-jay

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 991
    • View Profile
Re: Elizabeth TOMS baptism Combe St Nicholas c. 1791
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 03 January 16 22:39 GMT (UK) »
On the face of it, this seems an unlikely claim as there are no baptisms in the name of TOMS in the Combe St Nicholas [CSN] registers.  However, there was a TOMS presence in Chard amongst Non-conformists, with John TOMS the ironmonger, stationer and subsequently postmaster, who joined the Chard Baptist Church in 1831 when aged 42, and raised children of two marriages there.  He gave his birthplace as Bishopsteignton, Devon.

The only TOMS link I've encountered in CSN records is the 1821 marriage between Aaron TOMS of Drayton and Hannah WILLIAMS.  I can't check details on the PRs as my fiche-reader is currently awaiting a new bulb, but Richard & Hannah WILLIAMS presented a daughter Elizabeth for baptism in 1790 in CSN and, amongst others in the following period, a daughter Hannah in 1799.

On 04 Oct 1791 John TOMS of Isle Brewers married  Elizabeth MUNCKTON at Drayton by licence and they appear the likely so-named parents for Aaron baptized 1798 at Curry Rivel.  In 1851, at St James Clerkenwell, Aaron claimed Drayton for his birthplace and his wife Hannah claimed Combe St Nicholas.  It's possible that Elizabeth TOMS was born at CSN but baptized at her father's place of legal settlement or elsewhere.  I'd be inclined to widen the search to include the above mentioned parishes:  also, to take on board the possibility that Elizabeth TOMS may have been born before, or very early in, her parents' marriage.

One other point:  have you ascertained the marital status of Elizabeth TOMS in 1811 in case she might have been a widow?

Happy hunting!

Update:

It appears likely the John TOMS referred to in para. 1 above might have been the junior;  and possibly one of 15 children born to the gentleman of the obituary below.  Source: 'Chard Baptists' by Malcolm Bonnington, 1992 ISBN 1 870649036.

Bath Chronicle and Weekly Gazette - Thursday 30 July 1829
At Chard, July 21, the Rev. John Toms, nearly 30 years pastor of the Baptist chapel in that town. He preached twice on the preceding Sunday, and while returning home from chapel was seized with apoplexy, of which he expired in forty-eight hours.   
SOM/Chard/Combe St Nicholas/Ilminster:  Dean[e]/Doble/Jeffery/Burt;  DEV/Yarcombe:  Dean/Gill/Every; 
BRK/Newbury:  Westall/Green/Lewis/Canning;  WIL/Allcannings:  Hiscock/Amor;  Froxfield:  Hobbs/Green;  HAM/Kingsclere:  Martin/Hiscock/Westall;  WAR/Marton/Bubbenhall:  Glenn/Holmes;  STS/Yoxall/Hamstall Ridware/Barton-u-Needwood:  Holmes/Dainty;  STS/Brewood/Codsall/Penkridge/Hatherton:  Dean[e]; GLA/Aberdare:  Dean/Dane

Census information: Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Offline ndmhine

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 23
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Elizabeth TOMS baptism Combe St Nicholas c. 1791
« Reply #3 on: Monday 04 January 16 10:07 GMT (UK) »
Thanks both. I was trying to see how far I could get online as I am based a long away from Somerset.

Thanks particularly to dee-jay for all that research - very helpful. John Toms and Aaron Toms look like promising lines of enquiry, certainly, if the Elizabeth Toms, b Combe St Nicholas line of enquiry is the right one.

However, now I look at it with fresh eyes after a month away, I'm beginning to be less sure I (and everyone else who has investigated them previously) have identified the right marriage record for this couple (John & Elizabeth Meech was a pretty common set of names). In that case my search for Elizabeth Toms b1791-2 might be a red herring as she may have a different maiden name.

The family are confusing as they may have moved around extensively before ending up in South Perrott, Dorset. A selection of other people's trees on ancestry.com (not a trustworthy source by any means!) have come to a different conclusions about which Meeches born to people called John and Elizabeth Meech are actually their children. I will need to re-examine the hard evidence from the last person who is definitively my ancestor (their daughter Flora Meech) and try to eliminate any unsound conclusions.

Offline ndmhine

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 23
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Elizabeth TOMS baptism Combe St Nicholas c. 1791
« Reply #4 on: Monday 04 January 16 13:54 GMT (UK) »
Confusing alternate spellings of the 18th century strike again. I have found a much more likely marriage record than the one I was previously looking at:

http://www.freereg.org.uk/search_records/55109137e937900ae869a098?search_id=568a78c7791e3b84c80008b6

The reason I had not spotted that before is that "Much" does not equate to "Meech" under any of the name-matching algorithms, but the fact that the groom's parish is listed as "Perrott, Dorset", which is where my couple then had their children, convinces me this is the right marriage.

Therefore I have replaced the mystery of who was Elizabeth Toms with who was Elizabeth Diment!

Offline dee-jay

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 991
    • View Profile
Re: Elizabeth TOMS baptism Combe St Nicholas c. 1791
« Reply #5 on: Monday 04 January 16 14:59 GMT (UK) »
Confusing alternate spellings of the 18th century strike again. I have found a much more likely marriage record than the one I was previously looking at:

The FreeREG link is useless as it does not contain any information!  However, DIMENT is a regular feature in CSN PRs, and Dr Campbell's index compounds the Phillimore's transcript of 'MUCH'.  I can't check the microfiche as my reader's bulb 'popped' last night and it may take a few days to obtain a replacement.  However, there is a baptism for a Betty, daughter of Thomas & Betty DIMENT dated 26 Apr 1791 at CSN.  :)
SOM/Chard/Combe St Nicholas/Ilminster:  Dean[e]/Doble/Jeffery/Burt;  DEV/Yarcombe:  Dean/Gill/Every; 
BRK/Newbury:  Westall/Green/Lewis/Canning;  WIL/Allcannings:  Hiscock/Amor;  Froxfield:  Hobbs/Green;  HAM/Kingsclere:  Martin/Hiscock/Westall;  WAR/Marton/Bubbenhall:  Glenn/Holmes;  STS/Yoxall/Hamstall Ridware/Barton-u-Needwood:  Holmes/Dainty;  STS/Brewood/Codsall/Penkridge/Hatherton:  Dean[e]; GLA/Aberdare:  Dean/Dane

Census information: Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline ndmhine

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 23
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Elizabeth TOMS baptism Combe St Nicholas c. 1791
« Reply #6 on: Monday 04 January 16 15:06 GMT (UK) »
Wonderful! That must be her. Many thanks.

Apologies - I didn't realise the freereg link wouldn't go to the result page. This was the information I was looking at:

Field    Value
County    Somerset
Place    Combe St Nicholas
Church name    St Nicholas
Register type    Phillimore's Transcripts
Marriage date    24 Dec 1812
Groom forename    John
Groom surname    MUCH
Groom parish    Perrott Dorset
Bride forename    Elizabeth
Bride surname    DIMENT

Offline dee-jay

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 991
    • View Profile
Re: Elizabeth TOMS baptism Combe St Nicholas c. 1791
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 06 January 16 10:24 GMT (UK) »
John MEECH provided a signature at marriage, as did Elizabeth DIMENT and their witnesses:  William DIMENT;  Mary ??????; Elizabeth STONE.  Theirs was the last marriage in that particular register.
SOM/Chard/Combe St Nicholas/Ilminster:  Dean[e]/Doble/Jeffery/Burt;  DEV/Yarcombe:  Dean/Gill/Every; 
BRK/Newbury:  Westall/Green/Lewis/Canning;  WIL/Allcannings:  Hiscock/Amor;  Froxfield:  Hobbs/Green;  HAM/Kingsclere:  Martin/Hiscock/Westall;  WAR/Marton/Bubbenhall:  Glenn/Holmes;  STS/Yoxall/Hamstall Ridware/Barton-u-Needwood:  Holmes/Dainty;  STS/Brewood/Codsall/Penkridge/Hatherton:  Dean[e]; GLA/Aberdare:  Dean/Dane

Census information: Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline ndmhine

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 23
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Elizabeth DIMENT baptism Combe St Nicholas c. 1791
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 06 January 16 18:34 GMT (UK) »
Very interesting. I guess that means they were all literate, which would still have been relatively unusual at that time.

William Diment could possibly have been her brother, but he'd only have been 13 so possibly an uncle or grandfather. I think I have found the immediate family from other records now I know the right surname. For future reference of anyone else looking for the same family:

Thomas Diment 1761-1836 married Betty Buckler/Budler 1760-1845 in Chard on 6 Feb 1782, they seem to have had 6 children in CSN:

Robert Diment 1783 (m Eliza Gange)
Mary Diment 1786 (m William French 1808)
Elizabeth Diment 1791-1880 (m John Meech 1812)
William Diment 1799-1869
Hannah Diment 1800 (possibly died unmarried, Chard, 1870?)
Thomas Diment 1804-1876 (m Ann, 6 children)