Yorkshire polls book 1807

[dobfarm]

Yorkshire polls book 1807 Names and trades or vocation

Town index at back of book

http://archive.org/stream/countyyorkpollf00unkngoog#page/n4/mode/2up

[karen58]

Hello Dobfarm

Thank you for this link. This is a better book than the one on Ancestry.

I am looking for the 1832 poll book for the West Riding for the Wapontake of Agbrigg and Morley.

Apparently there was once a copy at the old Huddersfield Central Library. Have been in contact with the Huddersfield Library Local Studies and it is not stored there now.

Have already posted a query on the West Riding Boards without luck.

This is strange as the West Riding electorate was the largest county electorate for that election.

Cheers
Karen

[dobfarm]

Longshot tries 

You could try the Huddersfield university library and they allow the public access to use the uni library as guest or as member. Above top (dark blue telephone icon) menu (click -' Contact us ') in link for contact details

http://www.hud.ac.uk/library/

also try

YAS part located at Claremont house Leeds and in Leeds university library

https://www.yas.org.uk/

Last try ' Borthwick institute ' located in York university library

https://www.york.ac.uk/borthwick/

[BushInn1746]

Hello Dobfarm

Thank you for this link. This is a better book than the one on Ancestry.

I am looking for the 1832 poll book for the West Riding for the Wapontake of Agbrigg and Morley.

Apparently there was once a copy at the old Huddersfield Central Library. Have been in contact with the Huddersfield Library Local Studies and it is not stored there now.
...

Cheers
Karen

Hello Karen and dobfarm

Is the Morley, that you are after near Leeds?

There is a printed West Riding 1832 (up to 1833) "Register of the Electors" on Ancestry, I only got the first part of the Index and Selby pages at the Library, but it covers Leeds.

You will only find those polled who are entitled to vote (being a Freeholder of property back then, was usually one entitlement to vote).

Land Tax
Also got an 1832 Land Tax page (printed book, filled out by hand), so if they paid Land Tax as an owner or occupier (rather than the owner paying the tax), you might find a Land Tax book and the name of the Proprietor and main Occupier listed

Bear in mind if the main 'Occupier' then sub-lets, it is usual only to find the main Occupier.

Manor Rents
In our local Manor, not everyone paid Land Tax, some Tenants of the Manor paid other rents, such as Fee Farm, Quit Rents and other Ancient Rents etc., etc., to the Lord of the Manor.

Church Assessments and Tithes
Some churches made assessments for repairs to churches too, listing the payer and the amount.

On older properties and if a Tithe was paid and this was commuted to a Rent Charge in the 1840s. If your people occupied a Tithable Land/property (not yet redeemed), the property should be on a numbered Tithe Map and both the Owner and main Occupier recorded in an Apportionment or Schedule (virtually every Parish with Tithable Land should have one and nearly all survive), in two IR (Inland Revenue) series at TNA, Kew, under the Parish and the local Diocesan Office, or County Records should hold the other copy now. If the occupier was sub-letting though, you may not find the household head.

Regards Mark

[karen58]

Hello Mark

Thank you very much for the information.

Robert's will (1836) shows that he was receiving tithes, Easter dues and mortuaries, before commutation to Rent Charge, and his sons inherited them.

TNA has a very good page on the history of tithes but I haven't been able to find a map for Robert.

Cheers
Karen

[BushInn1746]

Hello Karen

Shame 1836 is just a few years too early for the Tithe Surveys and Maps.

The Tithe Commutation Act was in 1836 and surveys started after, mostly in the early 1840s.

What is the Parish name?

Kind regards, Mark

[karen58]

Hello Mark

Robert Winterbottom owned land at Woolroad in Quick Mere, Parish of Saddleworth.

I searched TNA for a map for before but was unable to find one, however, I do have difficulties searching on that website.

I did find a Tithe map for Quick Mere for 1847, which would be relevant to Henry Winterbottom, his son. It appears that it is only available on The Genealogist.

Have you ever used this site? It seems a little dodgy and more confusing than TNA.

Warm Regards
Karen

[BushInn1746]

Hello Karen

Virtually every Parish with Tithable Lands (fields/property) had a Tithe Survey Map [but not all].

Some lands may have already been commuted apparently, or subject to other Agreement, bit more about this here. Yes, TNA is not east to begin with.
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/tithes/

You mentioned Saddleworth (have a go at this search please, to make you more familiar with searching TNA Discovery Advanced Search), but I have done a search and also put the link to it, with the results you should also get.

In TNA, Kew, advance search page (next link) complete only the following boxes, without commas:-
Exact word or phrase type Saddleworth
Any of these references (this use to be known as the Record Series) most Tithe records are in "IR" or "TITH" (which you will find in the research guides), to keep it easy just use the first box (of three boxes) and type in "IR"
Dates type in from and to dates ... from say, "1836" to "1850"

Scroll down and click to highlight (light up) the small circle against Search the National Archives

Then click Search ...
Advanced Search here ... http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/advanced-search

Hopefully you should get the same results here ...
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_st=adv&_ep=Saddleworth&_cr1=IR&_dss=range&_sd=1836&_ed=1850&_ro=any&_hb=tna

The Tithe files in IR 18 result description, appear to indicate Saddleworth, comes under Rochdale Parish, I am not familar with Yorkshire or the Tithe survey area in question. So you can try Rochdale in the Exact word box too.

The results seem to suggest their are some Apportionments, for some parts?

Generally, some are only listed by Parish name, but I know from others maps, there are other places (within the Parish) on some Parish maps. Research is awkward, you never know until you see the document, whether it will help you or not.

TNA, Cat refs beginning IR 29 = Tithe Apportionments, but these are no good without the numbered Tithe Map, if you want to know the property situation.
TNA, Cat refs beginning IR 30 = Tithe Maps.

There are some items in the "TITH" references "TITH 1" and "TITH 2", you could repeat the above search with "TITH" and see if possible maps might be mentioned?

If you can find another family member / executor residing at the property in the 1841 Census, note down the neighbours names either side in the 1841 Census AND any farm names, property name and any property description in a Will, as that might just help you to identify/confirm the property / fields in the Tithe Map and Apportionment, a few years later (even though it might have a new owner/occupier).

Don't forget to take your proof of ID ... Passport / Photo Driving Licence and two recent printed formal notifications with both your name and address on:- bank statement, C/Tax, tax notice, phone bill, that you received by post etc., (not junk mail), which include both your name and current address, to get a TNA "Readers Ticket".

Any documents on 3 days notice, will need to be advanced ordered.

Never tried it, but during Office hours, I noticed a Live Chat, button to ask small questions, but you email or ring.

CARN Ticket is NO GOOD at TNA, Kew.

You'll need a TNA 'Readers Ticket' ID Card, to see these documents (keep it safe, they usually last several years).

Kind regards Mark

EDIT: before chasing all over the place, our Library Local Studies section has a b & w Photostat copy of our 1842 Map of the Tithable Lands, have you tried the Main Library with a Local History Dept for that place?

Generally, anyone getting a Map or Plan, extract copy / taking a photo, should also get the formal Title of the map and Date exactly, because Tithe Maps, Enclosure Maps and Maps were made at different dates for the same place, sometimes under different agreements or for different reasons, which may have related information such as Acts of Parliament, Schedules, Apportionment or Particulars elsewhere.

EDIT 2: It seems some Apportionment Schedules (in IR 29) are showing, according to the Cat. ref's., so you could email and ask whether there is an online search issue, if you cannot find the corresponding map, Catalogue references, which should be free to enquire, (some items are in the paper indexes and on discovery, but don't always show on a search).

[karen58]

Hello Mark

Wow, your proficiency with TNA is phenomenal. Thank you so much for your help and I think I understand how you searched for the result.

IR 29/43/269 looks very promising, at least with regard to Robert's sons as they still owned land at Lords Mere in 1847. The map is apparently available at the Geneaologist.

I live in Australia so a readers ticket for TNA won't help, but I will take your advice and contact the Saddleworth Historical Society as they should be able to advise me about IR 29/43/269.

Warm Regards
Karen