William Lilley - Hawker

[sherrbert]

My Grt, grt, grt grandfather was William Lilley a hawker from Shoreditch. All I have is a marriage in 1857 to Ellen Baker and the '71 census that also shows their 2 sons Thomas & William. Struggling to find birth and death records and parentage for William, all I know is his father was also William, a sailor deceased sometime before 1857. HELP! Please.

[IgorStrav]

I take it that you have the marriage certificate to show your William's father was also a William, a mariner, and deceased?

Who were the witnesses to the wedding, have you followed them up to see if there are any clues to siblings?

[IgorStrav]

Ellen Lilley
33
abt 1838

Female
Born Shoreditch, Middlesex, England
Civil Parish St Leonard Shoreditch

Shoreditch
St Leonard
ED, institution, or vessel 5
Household schedule number 254
Piece 441
Folio 128
Page 42
Household   

William Lilley   28
Ellen Lilley           33
Thomas Lilley   10
William Lilley   7

This is the 1871 you are talking about, I assume?

[IgorStrav]

Looks like they are living next door to Ellen's mum, another Ellen, who was born in Ireland.  It can sometimes be really helpful to follow through relatives - I see there are apparently some of Ellen's brothers also living there - have you been able to do this?

Or is it just going backwards for William himself you are having difficulties with?

[IgorStrav]

Could this possibly be William and Ellen in the 1861?  Her first name not given, and age seems to be wrong, and William is shown as 'jeweller', but this doesn't mean he didn't make/sell trinkets from door to door as a hawker.

William Lilley
21
1840
Head
Spouse's Name Lilley
Male
Born London, Middlesex, England

Occupation Jeweller

Shoreditch
Hoxton New Town
ED, institution, or vessel 3

Household schedule number 69
Piece 236
Folio 49
Page Number 12

William Lilley   21
Lilley   19

[sherrbert]

Hi IgorStrav, Yes I have the marriage cert., witnesses Daniel Baker ( Ellen's dad was Daniel a plasterer from Ireland) and James Mash. The cert gives William as being of full age and Ellen a minor. Which casts doubt on the ages given in '71.  Yes you have the correct '71 and yes I have come across that '61 before. I also have the '51 for Ellen which gives her a d.o.b of 1938. I'm really only interested in William as he is proving a mystery!
Thanks p.s I'm related to some Burton's of East London

[IgorStrav]

Thanks p.s I'm related to some Burton's of East London

Oh dear oh dear oh dear, there are a lot of them.......and so hard to tell apart!

[IgorStrav]

I think James Mash was probably a professional witness, as he is a sexton of St John's Hoxton in the 1851, living in Shoreditch.  So no help from him.

Your William may be the son of another William, or made up the name.  No sign of him in the 1851 so far as I can see yet.....or of an appropriate birth ref.

[bramcor]

You mentioned the 1851 census for Ellen. Have you noticed that there is a William Lilly, with wife Martha & son Samuel, living just a few buildings away? The father is a rag sorter & the mother is a china hawker. The couple can be found on subsequent censuses with a growing family. No sign of young William, however. There is no evidence that the father is or has been a mariner, but it caught my attention as the Lilly family is living so close to the Baker family in Shoreditch. Is it possible that Martha was a widow with a son (maybe your William?) so he had a different name? A William Lilly married in Shoreditch in 1845, with a possible spouse being Martha Horner Stone. There may be no connection, of course, but it may be worth pursuing. I would also try other spellings ( I think Martha is on the 1871 census as Lille).