Author Topic: Andrew Henderson - the father, the brother, or something else?  (Read 1533 times)

Offline Stuart273

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 170
  • 2016 Panto - Upgraded to Yorkshire Yokel.
    • View Profile
Andrew Henderson - the father, the brother, or something else?
« on: Sunday 13 December 15 09:25 GMT (UK) »
Hi all.
Here's a little conundrum I've come across which I would like some help with please. I have a couple of speculations of my own, but first the facts:

Henry Henderson (born c.1847) married Jessie Henderson (born c.1844, different line of Hendersons) on 12th March 1869.
They had one son, Andrew, before the marriage in January 1869.
They had 4 other children up to 1887 - Joan/Jeann, Thomas, Jane and Henry.
On the 1901 census Hary appears - aged 3, as a son.
in 1909 Thomas marries Mary Anderson, and one of the witnesses is Harry Henderson.
In 1910 Harry Henderson (age 23) marries Isabella Elliott in St Giles, Edinburgh. The certificate gives his parents as Andrew Henderson and Jessie Henderson (m/s Henderson which would fit), and his address as Melrose Place, St Boswells which also fits.
Both Thomas and Harry have a son in St Boswells before 1915 which they name Henry.
I cannot find a record of Hary, Harry or Ha*y Henderson being born in Roxburghshire between 1880 and 1900 on Scotlandspeople

So, the theories, because none of this adds up properly:

If Hary is Harry then the age on the 1901 census is wrong. However Hary/Harry doesn't appear on the 1891 census which he should do if he was 23 when he got married.
If Hary isn't Harry, then it's a big coincidence that the Harry who got married in 1910 had a mother whose name was Jessie Henderson (m/s Henderson) and father's name was the same as the first born Andrew of the other Jessie, and who lived in the family home.
Andrew is Hary/Harry's father, the mother was unknown so they used Andrew's mother's name as the mother (I don't want to think about the other possibilities in this scenario!).
Harry got confused at the wedding and he gave the wrong name for the father (there are no witnesses on the certificate).

Is there something I've missed, or does anyone have any other theory as to what could have happened please?
Cheers
Stuart
General:
Scotland - Henderson, Rutherford, Tofts, Green, Philp/Philip, Cook
England/Wales - Helps, Jones, Wright, Petheram (Axbridge and surrounding areas, Somerset)
Canada: Rutherford, Green
New Zealand: Rutherford

RootsChat is the busiest, largest free family history forum site in the country. It is completely free to use. Register now.
Also register instantly with Facebook or Twitter (and other social networks). Start your genealogy search now.


Offline ecksdochter

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 490
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Andrew Henderson - the father, the brother, or something else?
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 13 December 15 12:06 GMT (UK) »
Hello Stuart273,
     Harry (& in Scotland, Hen, Hend & Hairy) are  short/pet forms of Henry/Hendry.
     There is a birth for a Henry Henderson in 1887 at St Boswells, Roxburghshire. (ScotlandsPeople). Might be worth checking.
     I think the transcription on 1901 Census is wrong because Hary, supposed age 3, is listed as a scholar!
               Regards,     Dod.
 
 PS. Hary, 1901 is probably the Henry age 3 on 1891 Census.
"Scotsman! I am not a Scotsman -- I am a Fifer."

RootsChat is the busiest, largest free family history forum site in the country. It is completely free to use. Register now.
Also register instantly with Facebook or Twitter (and other social networks). Start your genealogy search now.


Offline Stuart273

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 170
  • 2016 Panto - Upgraded to Yorkshire Yokel.
    • View Profile
Re: Andrew Henderson - the father, the brother, or something else?
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 13 December 15 18:25 GMT (UK) »
Hi Dod
Thanks for replying and for your help. I hadn't thought of the Harry/Henry pet name thing, and the Henry born 1887 does belong to the family as I've checked the certificate but had him and Harry as 2 different people so that would make sense. Thanks for clearing that up - I'll assume it was a mistranscription on the census.
However this still leaves the mystery of why Andrew appears on the wedding certificate as the father. Yes he was born in 1869 so would have been 17/18 when Henry was born but Henry (elder one) appears as the father on the birth certificate, not Andrew.  And I'm not sure on this point but wouldn't legal names rather than pet names be required on the wedding certificate? If that is the case then either he changed it officially (I have no idea how to check that) or he's a different Harry born elsewhere in Scotland with the same mother but a different father and living in the family home, which doesn't seem likely.
It's at times like these I'd like access to a Tardis!
General:
Scotland - Henderson, Rutherford, Tofts, Green, Philp/Philip, Cook
England/Wales - Helps, Jones, Wright, Petheram (Axbridge and surrounding areas, Somerset)
Canada: Rutherford, Green
New Zealand: Rutherford

Offline terianne

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 416
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Andrew Henderson - the father, the brother, or something else?
« Reply #3 on: Monday 14 December 15 13:36 GMT (UK) »
Stuart273 you are getting yourself in a right muddle

Henry/Harry seems to be a family name which will show up in each generation in some form either the eldest or second of siblings in Andrew's generation in similar years and locations and subsequent generation it will appear in some other form

don't get worried about the use of Henry or Harry it probably means the same - the records back then would depend on what the clerk and family member registering the BMD wrote or said - like the name Jessie it can may other means not just Jessie, eg it could be Janet - not uncommon to be own official as one name and another within the family.

the confusion re fathers of Harry could be straight forward - it could be that Henry/Harry (Andrew's father) had a younger son called Henry, the same year son Andrew had son called Henry

it happens quite regularly

Also from what I can see Henry (born circa 1847) is the eldest son of a Andrew Henderson - so his grandfather was probably called Henry

Regarding the appearance in the census - it depends where a person was on the census day not where they lived - remember St Boswells Roxburghshire is the Parish of Mertoun (Berwickshire) - best to check both Roxburghshire & Berwickshire.




Offline Rosinish

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 10,846
  • PASSED & PAST (Speciality - South Uist, Inverness)
    • View Profile
Re: Andrew Henderson - the father, the brother, or something else?
« Reply #4 on: Monday 14 December 15 14:51 GMT (UK) »
Just an addition which may/may not help but Harry is also short for Harold.

Annie
South Uist, Inverness-shire, Scotland:- Bowie, Campbell, Cumming, Currie, MacDonald, MacInnes, MacIntyre, MacKinnon, Steele, Walker

Ireland:- Cullen, Flannigan (Derry), Donahoe/Donaghue (variants) (Cork), McCrate (Tipperary), Mellon, Tol(l)and (Donegal & Tyrone)

Newcastle-on-Tyne/Durham (Northumberland):- Harrison, Jude, Kemp, Lunn, Mellon, Robson, Stirling

Kettering, Northampton:- MacKinnon

Canada:- Callaghan, MacKinnon, MacPhee

"OLD GENEALOGISTS NEVER DIE - THEY JUST LOSE THEIR CENSUS"

Offline Stuart273

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 170
  • 2016 Panto - Upgraded to Yorkshire Yokel.
    • View Profile
Re: Andrew Henderson - the father, the brother, or something else?
« Reply #5 on: Monday 14 December 15 21:48 GMT (UK) »
Hi both, thanks for taking the time to post, it is appreciated :)
I feel pretty comfortable now with Harry being the Henry who was born in 1887 and that it is a mistake on the census in 1901 (whether in transcription or not is another matter). Although Henry (born c.1847) is not the line of my relatives he did have a father called Andrew, and the first of his sons is called Andrew (b.1869). Any further back than that I haven't gone as it is Jessie Henderson who is my relative.
I'm not so sure with regard to the wedding though. Andrew (b.1869) died childless and a bachelor - it was Harry who registered the death in 1931 - so possibly Harry/Henry looked on him as more of a father figure than Henry (1847) his actual father. Or he could just have made a genuine mistake on the wedding certificate. I guess the only way we might clear it up is to find Henry/Harry's death certificate which I haven't managed to do as yet.
Whilst in request mode, are there electoral rolls for St Boswells going back as far as 1931 (or earlier) which are accessible please?
Cheers
Stuart  :)
General:
Scotland - Henderson, Rutherford, Tofts, Green, Philp/Philip, Cook
England/Wales - Helps, Jones, Wright, Petheram (Axbridge and surrounding areas, Somerset)
Canada: Rutherford, Green
New Zealand: Rutherford

Offline terianne

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 416
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Andrew Henderson - the father, the brother, or something else?
« Reply #6 on: Monday 14 December 15 22:27 GMT (UK) »
Death cert are a good source of info, but you still have to be wary, especially if the person registering the death is not a close relative - eg if say register by son in law their knowledge may be limited regarding the names of the persons parents, especially the mother's name

Also check for RCE's

Offline MonicaL

  • RootsChat Honorary
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 26,875
  • Our Charlie (1924-2019)
    • View Profile
Re: Andrew Henderson - the father, the brother, or something else?
« Reply #7 on: Monday 14 December 15 22:46 GMT (UK) »
A really useful site for first name variants, of which there are many (some obvious, some less so) is this one www.whatsinaname.net/php/search.php?action=search2&search_name=harry

Monica

PS: Prince Harry, brother of William, is actually named Henry - as in Prince Henry of Wales - otherwise known as Prince Harry....
Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline MonicaL

  • RootsChat Honorary
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 26,875
  • Our Charlie (1924-2019)
    • View Profile
Re: Andrew Henderson - the father, the brother, or something else?
« Reply #8 on: Monday 14 December 15 22:48 GMT (UK) »
Have you looked at the original image on SP for the birth that Dod mentioned earlier?



     There is a birth for a Henry Henderson in 1887 at St Boswells, Roxburghshire. (ScotlandsPeople). Might be worth checking.
   
Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk