Author Topic: Bufton/Lucas Llanbister(ish)  (Read 1782 times)

Offline Spidermonkey

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,271
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Bufton/Lucas Llanbister(ish)
« on: Sunday 07 February 16 12:24 GMT (UK) »
I would appreciate some help in untangling an element of my husband's ancestry.

William Lucas was born on 4th Sept 1848 in Beguildy.  We have his birth cert, and the mother's name is given as Ann Lucas, residence Bankhouse.  No father's name is shown.

William can be seen on subsequent censuses right through to the 1911 census, and his death can be picked up in 1913.  However, the same can't be said for his mother!

On the 1851 census, William can be seen with his grandparents (Edward and Ann Lucas, nee Bufton), George Bufton (Edward's step son), and Mary Lucas (Edward and Ann's daughter) living in Llanbister (the place name looks to be Bundwy, but am open to other suggestions).

Edward and Ann Lucas, and George Bufton can be followed through the censuses, but Mary Lucas goes missing (she might get married in 1851, but I haven't ordered that cert yet).

So my dilemma - are Mary Lucas and Ann Lucas (mother of William) the same person?  Can anyone find a baptism of either Mary or Ann Lucas?  Where do Mary and Ann go after 1851 (after 1848 in the case of Ann Lucas)?

On William Lucas' marriage cert, he gives his father's name as David Price, farmer - not the most uncommon name in Wales.  We have not been able to prove or disprove this bit of information.

Many thanks in advance for any help or suggestions you can make!

RootsChat is the busiest, largest free family history forum site in the country. It is completely free to use. Register now.
Also register instantly with Facebook or Twitter (and other social networks). Start your genealogy search now.


Offline mazi

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,564
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Bufton/Lucas Llanbister(ish)
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 07 February 16 15:08 GMT (UK) »
If bankhouse is Bankhouse farm then it's about 2 miles SW of beguildy, pretty remote for giving birth,
I wonder who else was living there.

Mike

RootsChat is the busiest, largest free family history forum site in the country. It is completely free to use. Register now.
Also register instantly with Facebook or Twitter (and other social networks). Start your genealogy search now.


Offline Spidermonkey

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,271
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Bufton/Lucas Llanbister(ish)
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 07 February 16 15:16 GMT (UK) »
The occupiers of Bank House, Beguildy in 1851 are John Kinsey (aged 30) and his family. There are a family of Lucas' in Beguildy at this time.  Jane Lucas (aged 59) and two of her children are living at New House, Beguildy.  Maybe it is worth looking into Jane's family to see if there is any tie-up with the Lucas family that I'm interested in (indubitably, there will be a link, cos they were all born in Llanddewi or Llanbister, but how close a link is the question!)

Offline mazi

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,564
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Bufton/Lucas Llanbister(ish)
« Reply #3 on: Monday 08 February 16 14:45 GMT (UK) »
A Thomas and Jane Lucas had a daughter Ann in llandewy in 1824.

I am puzzled that your William's birth is shown as llandewy born 1850 in the 1851, I would have thought a two and a bit year old would not be shewn as a one year old, but I am aware you have lots more experience than me  :) :)
Mike

Offline osprey

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 9,228
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Bufton/Lucas Llanbister(ish)
« Reply #4 on: Monday 08 February 16 16:50 GMT (UK) »
I agree with you, Mike. If he was born in 1848, why does he show up on the census as being born in late 1849/ early 1850. A birth in late 1848 would show up as a year older.

Also, there's a burial in Llanbister on 10 Sep 1849 of a 1 year old William Lucas. The record on FreeReg doesn't give any more info, but that the only William Lucas birth reg in 1848 in the area.

Have you checked the birth for William Lucas dec qtr 1849 Knighton vol 26 pg 243? he would be the right age at least.

 :-\
Cornwall: Allen, Bevan, Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, Gwyn, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Airey, Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Hewitt, Kellett, Kemp, Stephenson, Tebb

Offline osprey

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 9,228
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Bufton/Lucas Llanbister(ish)
« Reply #5 on: Monday 08 February 16 16:59 GMT (UK) »
just spotted another burial in Llanbister

Anne Lucas age 25 buried 27 Nov 1850

which would explain why she can't be found on later census entries.

There would appear to be 2 Edward Lucas/Ann Bufton couples as well. George Bufton, son of Ann, was baptised 25 Nov 1826 in Llanddewi Ystradenni.
Edward Lucas married Ann Bufton in Llanbister in Feb 1816, but that couple would be older than your Edward & Ann?

 :-\
Cornwall: Allen, Bevan, Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, Gwyn, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Airey, Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Hewitt, Kellett, Kemp, Stephenson, Tebb

Offline Spidermonkey

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,271
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Bufton/Lucas Llanbister(ish)
« Reply #6 on: Monday 08 February 16 18:12 GMT (UK) »
A Thomas and Jane Lucas had a daughter Ann in llandewy in 1824.

I am puzzled that your William's birth is shown as llandewy born 1850 in the 1851, I would have thought a two and a bit year old would not be shewn as a one year old, but I am aware you have lots more experience than me  :) :)
Mike

A totally valid point regarding William's age.  I know that George Bufton is his uncle and that Ann and Edward are his grandparents because I can follow them through the censuses - including the 1881 census when they are all at Baynham Farm in Brampton Bryan, and it shows William and his wife, Sarah Ann, with uncle George, Grandad Edward and Grandma Ann.

But do I have the right birth cert?

Have you checked the birth for William Lucas dec qtr 1849 Knighton vol 26 pg 243? he would be the right age at least.
 :-\

I will have a look and see if I have counted/discounted the above.  That might well be the answer to  this conundrum.

Offline Spidermonkey

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,271
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Bufton/Lucas Llanbister(ish)
« Reply #7 on: Monday 08 February 16 19:26 GMT (UK) »
But do I have the right birth cert?

Have you checked the birth for William Lucas dec qtr 1849 Knighton vol 26 pg 243? he would be the right age at least.
 :-\

I will have a look and see if I have counted/discounted the above.  That might well be the answer to  this conundrum.
[/quote]

I am so going to kick myself if that is what has been the problem!  I can't see any record in my notes that we even considered the 1849 birth.  Total juvenile error.

Offline Spidermonkey

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,271
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Bufton/Lucas Llanbister(ish)
« Reply #8 on: Monday 08 February 16 19:48 GMT (UK) »
Have ordered the 1849 birth cert, which has a dispatch date of 15/2, so should see if that sheds any light on William's birth.  I wonder if it will show 'aunt' Mary Lucas as the mother.  Just out of curiousity, and because i can't see her again, I have ordered the marriage cert of a Mary Lucas (Knighton 26, 417) which should be dispatched the same day.