Author Topic: kelsall - Ann and Samuel Johnson  (Read 1272 times)

Offline queenswood 1

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kelsall - Ann and Samuel Johnson
« on: Monday 29 February 16 17:38 GMT (UK) »
I am looking to find a baptism record for these 2 siblings born in Kelsal. Ann was born c 1792/93 but not sure about her brother Samuel. Any help or guidance really appreciated.

Caroline
Roots/Day/Atkins - (Essex/Suffolk/ London)Bourne/Milner/Corden-(Staffs/Shrops/Cheshire)
Wood/Gibbs/Battrick/Fall/Budden-(Dorset)

Offline CaroleW

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Re: kelsall - Ann and Samuel Johnson
« Reply #1 on: Monday 29 February 16 17:47 GMT (UK) »
Connected post here

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=742882.new;topicseen#new

What documentation do you have that shows Ann & Samuel were siblings?

How do you know Samuel was born in Kelsal?
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Carlin (Ireland & Liverpool) Doughty & Wright (Liverpool) Dick & Park (Scotland & Liverpool)

Offline queenswood 1

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Re: kelsall - Ann and Samuel Johnson
« Reply #2 on: Monday 29 February 16 19:12 GMT (UK) »
Hello Carole- it is very tenuous research- and I will close the post if you think it unachievable.
I have the 1841/51/61 Census for Thomas Johnson -born 1791/2 Utkinton and his wife a year younger born at Kelsal. I believe this to be possibly the baptism record for Thomas, held on the Tarporley register but clearly showing he was born in Utkinton:
 Thomas Johnson, son of Samuel and Mary of Utkinton, baptised 3/7/1791 at Tarporley. – on IGI records.
I can see a possible marriage for Thomas and Ann in 1815 17th April  at St Oswald's Chester - Thomas Johnson, Labourer to Anne Harrison- both of this Parish. However one of the witnesses is a Samuel Johnson. This could feasibly be Thomas's father.
St Oswalds Chester originally serviced the parish of Great Boughton
Baptism records for the first two of their children show as follows:
Henry Johnson baptised 21 April 1816 at Tarvin – son of Thomas Johnson and Ann- IGI

Samuel Johnson baptised in 1818 at Tarvin - son of Thomas Johnson and Ann of Kelsall - Thomas was a Farmer.- IGI

Tarvin St Andrew was the parish church for Kelsall

Later children were baptised as follows:
Thomas Johnson baptised 1st Oct 1820 at Tarporley- son of Thomas Johnson and Ann
Mary Johnson baptised 25th December 1825 at Delamere and also at Burton by Tarvin
Esther Johnson baptised 23rd August 1830 at Delamere- daughter of Thomas Johnson and Ann
John Johnson baptised 12th June 1836 at Tarvin- son of Thomas Johnson and Ann

These dates and children order coincides with the 1841 census- where there is also listed a George Harrison aged 12- born Cheshire and listed between the children of the family and the servants. I started to wonder if this George Harrison was related to Ann (nee Harrison) who married Thomas Johnson in 1815.

I have traced George Harrison through the censuses and find that he too was born in Kelsal as was Ann Harrison. Based on the following:

George Harrison- born c 1828 Kelsal
1841- Living with Thomas and Ann Johnson  aged 13- possibly Ann’s nephew.
Records show that George’s father was Samuel.

The 1861 shows him married and living in Liverpool with wife Mary

Possible marriage to Mary Vernon at St Peter Liverpool 1854 - details are on FS including  fathers names – Samuel Harrison and William Vernon

1881 Census – living at The Square, Christleton, Chester
George Harrison   Head      Age 53      General Labourer   B 1828 Kelsal
Mary Harrison      Wife      Age 50            B 1830 Stapleford Chesh
George Harrison   Son      Age 24(s)   Railway porter      B1857 Liverpool
William Harrison   Son      Age 22      Ag Lab         B 1859 Liverpool
Joseph Harrison   Son      Age 17   Apprentice Stone Mason     B 1864 Christleton
Arthur Harrison   Son      Age 13               B 1868 Christleton
Emily Harrison      Daugh      Age 10               B Christleton

So this has led me to consider if Ann Harrison had a sibling Samuel Harrison (stated as being George's father at the time of his wedding)- as it would certainly seem that we have two generations of Johnsons coming from Kelsall.

Hence my request. It is quite hard to define the wedding between Thomas Johnson and his wife Ann, because Ann is such a common name, and there were lots of little villages which fed into larger parish churches in the area but the link with the surname Harrison in both the wedding of 1815 and the later 1841 census in which we also find a young George Harrison from kelsall living with Ann and Thomas- set me thinking that it might just prove I have the correct spouse for Thomas Johnson.

Let me know if you think I am chasing a red herring- would value your views and opinions.

Caroline



Roots/Day/Atkins - (Essex/Suffolk/ London)Bourne/Milner/Corden-(Staffs/Shrops/Cheshire)
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Offline tommy-tipper

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Re: kelsall - Ann and Samuel Johnson
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 14 May 20 11:21 BST (UK) »
Hi queenswood 1
George Harrison was my 2nd Great Grandfather and have all the relevant history from him to present day,i have never found a Birth or Baptism on him and only know his Father was Samuel a Blacksmith because of his marriage to Mary Vernon.
I am fully DNA tested and do match Mary's Sibling so that is proven,i do have a few theory's I have messaged you but realise this is years old so you might not be intrested now but I am curious if you ever found more out.


Offline queenswood 1

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Re: kelsall - Ann and Samuel Johnson
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 14 May 20 13:26 BST (UK) »
I was doing this research 4 years ago for an elderly friend and I will need to get my file out and try and work through the orginal enquiry and your response! Please give me a few days to check my research and I will reply to you in more details so that we can maybe help each other.
If you send me a PM we can then carry on this discussion off site to avoid repaeating information that is already within the threads.
Pleased to help
Caroline
Roots/Day/Atkins - (Essex/Suffolk/ London)Bourne/Milner/Corden-(Staffs/Shrops/Cheshire)
Wood/Gibbs/Battrick/Fall/Budden-(Dorset)

Offline queenswood 1

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Re: kelsall - Ann and Samuel Johnson Completed
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 16 May 20 14:22 BST (UK) »
Re George Harrison 1828. Aftre further messages with tommy-tippy I can confirm that it would seem that George Harrison was the uillegitimate son of Sarah Bratt- baptised 30th December 1827 on the Tarporley register, living in Utkinton. sarah Bratt then married Samuel Johnson in Tarvin on 19th November 1828. Tommy-tippy advised that he believed that both samuel and sarah died during the 1830s and that would further explain why George Harrison(having taken the surname of his stepfather on the marriage of his mother to sdamuel in 1828) is to be found with Thomas Johnson and his wife Ann on the 1841 census, working on their farm. Thomas Johnson married Ann Harrison- Ann was Samuel Johnson's sister.

I think that completes the thread.
Thank you to all concerned.
Caroline
Roots/Day/Atkins - (Essex/Suffolk/ London)Bourne/Milner/Corden-(Staffs/Shrops/Cheshire)
Wood/Gibbs/Battrick/Fall/Budden-(Dorset)