Author Topic: Obtaining BDM certificates  (Read 7423 times)

Offline judb

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Re: Obtaining BDM certificates
« Reply #27 on: Wednesday 02 March 16 05:41 GMT (UK) »
There are a few public trees for this family but none of them mention Winifred later than the birth of her third daughter, Ellen at Kilmore in 1849.  Many of the trees cite other trees as the source of information so who knows what is correct and what isn't, although some of them are well researched especially regarding the HONAN brothers convict background. There is a mention of Winifred's death as "before 1886" but there is no evidence given.

There is a suggestion that the third HONAN brother, Thomas HONAN, b 1805, died in 1884, Croele Nr Mount Gambier, South Australia, and there is a death which fits but would need to be verified.

None of them has the correct death for Michael.  ::)

Judith

DYER - Wilts, London, Somerset, MIDLANE - Hants, Wilts, SONE - Hants, WRIGHT - London, Hants, SEAGER - Deptford, DWYER, FERGUSON - Victoria, MASON - Woodford Vic, BALLARD - South Wales, GOULDBY - Lowestoft
"Time present and time past are both perhaps present in time future..." T S Eliot

UK Census information Crown Copyrightt, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline hereford

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Re: Obtaining BDM certificates
« Reply #28 on: Wednesday 02 March 16 09:44 GMT (UK) »
Information Anastasia's Death cert  She went by the name Annie.  Died 7th August 1901 at Blue Spur.58yrs old. Died of Apoplexy Parents written as unknown. Buried Lawrence cemetery. Religion Church of England. Married Heathcoat Victoria 18yrs age to Oliver Dawson. 6 males and 2 females living at her death.

William Oliver Dawson from his death cert Died 1928 Born Victoria Married in  Lawrence age 19 to Matilda  Mary Ross 2 sons 4 Daughters living at time of death.62 yrs at his death. States his father as William Oliver Dawson Mother unknown.

So the only source of information I have regarding the marriage  of Annie and Oliver is in the Death cert. Cant find a wedding cert for them or a birth cert for William Oliver.
I have a copy of Anastasia's baptism dated 1846 Birth 1845. If she was married to John Hynes she would have been 15yrs old.
Children noted in Family Bible.
William Oliver Dawson born 1866,Fredrick Dawson born 1868, Mathew H Dawson born 1870, John Michael Dawson 1872, Annie Elizabeth Ellen Dawson  1874,Thomas Dawson 1875 Hugh Dawson 1878 and Joseph Dawson 1882.Hugh and Joseph born at Blue spur and the others apart from William were born at Tuapeka Mouth.

Oliver came from Durham England the youngest son in a family of 7 children Hannah , John Oliver, Hugh, Ann, Jane , Elizabeth and Oliver. John Oliver and Ann died young as well as both parents. Hannah went to the USA with her husband and family.  Jane, Elizabeth and Oliver came to NZ via Australia. They were married and Oliver a young boy. Hannah and her family left quite a few yrs after Oliver and his Sisters left England.Hugh is unknown since about 1860 Jane and Elizabeth were married and Oliver a young boy.

Thanks Hereford.

Dawsons,potts,medwins -england
Mcilroy,greer,cannon,Turner-Ireland
wallace,andrew,kemp,Carruthers-scotland
Honan-Australia
New zealand-To name a few names

Offline judb

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Re: Obtaining BDM certificates
« Reply #29 on: Wednesday 02 March 16 13:00 GMT (UK) »
Please could you transcribe ALL of Anastasia's baptism certificate; sometimes a detail which seems insignificant may give a useful clue.

Judith

DYER - Wilts, London, Somerset, MIDLANE - Hants, Wilts, SONE - Hants, WRIGHT - London, Hants, SEAGER - Deptford, DWYER, FERGUSON - Victoria, MASON - Woodford Vic, BALLARD - South Wales, GOULDBY - Lowestoft
"Time present and time past are both perhaps present in time future..." T S Eliot

UK Census information Crown Copyrightt, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Offline hereford

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Re: Obtaining BDM certificates
« Reply #30 on: Wednesday 02 March 16 17:20 GMT (UK) »
New South Wales Roman Catholic Baptisms solemnized in the Parish of (No Name) in the county of(No Name) in the year 1846

When baptised-April 22
When born 1845 17th December
Child's Christian Name-Anastasia
Father -Michael Honan
Mother -Winifred Heffornd
Abode  Goulbourn  (a code Printed underneath this is 39268)
sponsers William (Hard to read surname looks like) Dempey and mary Dempy or Denapog
 Cantread the name who performed the ceremony
Dawsons,potts,medwins -england
Mcilroy,greer,cannon,Turner-Ireland
wallace,andrew,kemp,Carruthers-scotland
Honan-Australia
New zealand-To name a few names

Offline majm

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Re: Obtaining BDM certificates
« Reply #31 on: Wednesday 02 March 16 22:57 GMT (UK) »
Hi there,

Re Anastasia's baptism.

May I please ask if this is a document obtained from NSW Births, Deaths, Marriages?    Official Transcriptions of NSW BDM documents are prepared under the authority/licence of the NSW BDM and those transcribers are very familiar with the handwriting as they regularly transcribe those records, and have done so for many years.

If you were to take a snip of the section that is hard to decipher, I am sure there's several RChatters who will offer to transcribe. 

Re a possible marriage at age 15.
The various Marriage Acts in the Colonies including not just NSW, but also those colonies that had been administered from NSW at various stages during the 19th Century, include that Girls at age 12 and Boys at age 14 were eligible to marry.  Basically, as those girls and/or boys were not yet 21 years of age, they were not legally old enough for their own voice to be heard (ie they were not yet old enough give their own consent), and so they needed the consent of a responsible adult.   There is, at the NSW BDM website, a sample of a marriage certificate where the bride was aged 11 when she married in 1924, less than 100 years ago....    New Zealand was formally separated from NSW Colonial Administration in about 1840. Victoria was hived off in 1851.

http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/Pages/family-history/interesting-certificates.aspx
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/Documents/m1924-3913.pdf

Cheers,  JM
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
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Qui scit et non docet.    Qui docet et non vivit.    Qui nescit et non interrogat.   
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Offline judb

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Re: Obtaining BDM certificates
« Reply #32 on: Wednesday 02 March 16 23:46 GMT (UK) »
Thanks for the transcription which in this case doesn't help much  :(, and still isn't 100% clear as to whether it's Goulburn in NSW or the Goulburn Valley area in Victoria. However, given the birthplaces for the other children of Winifred and Michael it seems likely that it was in Victoria.

If you are inclined to part with a few more $$ perhaps the marriage certificate for Anastasia HONAN and John HYNES might prove enlightening - who gave consent? Is her father mentioned and what is his occupation and who were the witnesses?

The year of the marriage was 1860 and the registration number is 1591 (saves you having to search for it)
http://www.bdm.vic.gov.au/home/family+history/

Victorian BMDs offer an uncertified image of the original register which can be immediately downloaded for a fee of $AU24
As they are scanned images of original registration records they are most informative - so long as the correct information was given at the time.
The information asked for at the time of marriage on these images:
Marriages
 Date and place of marriage;
 name and surnames;
 conjugal condition, whether bachelor or spinster, widow or widower,
 stating date of decease of former wife or husband;
 children by each former marriage;
 birthplace;
 occupation;
 age;
 residence (present and usual);
 parent's names of each party (including mother's maiden name) and occupation of    father;
 signatures of the parties and witnesses;
 signature of Minister.


Judith

DYER - Wilts, London, Somerset, MIDLANE - Hants, Wilts, SONE - Hants, WRIGHT - London, Hants, SEAGER - Deptford, DWYER, FERGUSON - Victoria, MASON - Woodford Vic, BALLARD - South Wales, GOULDBY - Lowestoft
"Time present and time past are both perhaps present in time future..." T S Eliot

UK Census information Crown Copyrightt, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline majm

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Re: Obtaining BDM certificates
« Reply #33 on: Thursday 03 March 16 01:05 GMT (UK) »
New South Wales Roman Catholic Baptisms solemnized in the Parish of (No Name) in the county of(No Name) in the year 1846

When baptised-April 22
When born 1845 17th December
Child's Christian Name-Anastasia
Father -Michael Honan
Mother -Winifred Heffornd
Abode  Goulbourn  (a code Printed underneath this is 39268)
sponsers William (Hard to read surname looks like) Dempey and mary Dempy or Denapog
 Cantread the name who performed the ceremony

Re 39268

The Victorian BDM has TWO documents that will be of interest

Year of 1846
Registration No. 39268
HONAN
Anastasia
Father as Michael (HONAN)
Mother as Winifred (HEFFORN)

Year of 1846
Registration No.1556
HONAN
Anastasia
Father as Michael (HONAN)
Mother as Winifred (HEFFERIN)


1846, so this is before Victoria had been hived off from NSW, and it is also before Civil registration commences.  So these two documents which VIC BDM hold and which are noted on their own line index as ‘Births” are in fact, baptisms which may include a date of birth.    This would explain why there’s Sponsors (Godparents) noted by Hereford.   Not all baptismal records are found in the Civil Records, but many are.   And, not all those found records note birth dates, but many do.

There are well known reasons for more than one parish register to include the record of a baptism, and/or a burial and/or a marriage.  In particular in New South Wales at that time, the clergy were still formally required to obey the General Order that was first issued by Lachlan Macquarie back in 1810.   Of course, over the decades, the General Order was less and less remembered, but in general terms, the clergy were expected by the civil administration to transmit on a quarterly basis (so in April, July, October and January) to their denomination’s head office (Diocese) the details of the baptisms, burials, marriages for the quarter year just completed.   The Diocese was then meant to forward the statistics to the civil administration, basically to help determine the population and therefore check their current planning arrangements etc. 

So, sometimes in the BDM indexes in the years before civil registration commences, you can find two or more registrations for the same event.  I have one ancestor (a female) whose baptism was recorded in five different parish registers, yet her twin brother’s baptism (same day, same clergy, same location) is found just twice, (running numbers on the indexes too, same page on the original parish register).

So clearly Anastasia’s baptism occurred in that part of NSW that has been Victoria since 1851, as the 39268 reference is a reference from VIC BDM’s current index.
 https://online.justice.vic.gov.au/bdm/indexsearch.doj

Hereford, may I mention here that each of the colonies (now states) in the Antipodes was treated by Britain as a separate jurisdiction.  So in the same way that New Zeland has its own BDM, so too each of the other colonies had their own BDM, and because each of those other colonies are now states, they each continue to be separate jurisdictions in their own right.  So for example, each continues to have its own parliament, its own police force, its own BDM, and many other separate institutions.  Our Federal Parliament (Canberra) has its own written constitution, which commences in 1901.  Our States constitutions commence back in the 1800s, when Britain granted self government to each colony at separate times in their written histories.

As an aside,  NSW BDM's Early Church Records (the "V" in the index indicates these) include Baptisms, Burials, Marriages celebrated in New Zealand, and other South Seas Islands, as well all of what was NSW at that time.  However, NOT all the "V" series include at the online index the relevant District code for a specific index entry. (Marriages tend to, but not baptisms/burials).  Other offline resources may have better details than the online index.
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/Pages/family-history/early-church-codes.aspx



Cheers,  JM
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
Random Acts of Kindness Given Freely are never Worthless for they are Priceless.
Qui scit et non docet.    Qui docet et non vivit.    Qui nescit et non interrogat.   
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
I do not have a face book or a twitter account.

Offline JanStef

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Re: Obtaining BDM certificates
« Reply #34 on: Thursday 03 March 16 01:30 GMT (UK) »
Hi
New South Wales, Victoria and Queensland sites allow you to order from the site. There are transcription agents that are a little cheaper, around $20 Australian.
Tasmania, South Australia and Northern Territory BDM's aren't set up for online ordering. I don't know about Western Australia.
If I can be of more help let me know.
regards
Jan
Queensland

Offline hereford

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Re: Obtaining BDM certificates
« Reply #35 on: Thursday 03 March 16 02:51 GMT (UK) »
Looking for death record of John Hynes as I assume he died for Anastasia to be able to marry Oliver. hereford
Dawsons,potts,medwins -england
Mcilroy,greer,cannon,Turner-Ireland
wallace,andrew,kemp,Carruthers-scotland
Honan-Australia
New zealand-To name a few names