Author Topic: My dead end: Frederick John OWEN  (Read 1426 times)

Offline Knoknot

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 8
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
My dead end: Frederick John OWEN
« on: Monday 07 March 16 23:34 GMT (UK) »
I am reasonably sure that this is my 3rd great grandfather. He was a Glass Cutter in London and I have a marriage record for him to Mary Ann SETON at St Annes, Soho in 1823. ( He seems to have used his middle name John in later census records.)
My problem is that I cannot find a birth record for him, which should be about 1802, working back from census info.
If I don't know the parish he was born in, is there any way to make progress? It seems unlikely he was  born to Dissenters, as he married in C of E, but are there any birth records before 1837 for those not baptised?
Any help will be much appreciated.

Online CaroleW

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 71,103
  • Barney 1993-2004
    • View Profile
Re: My dead end: Frederick John OWEN
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 08 March 16 00:01 GMT (UK) »
Hi and welcome to Rootschat

You say you have him in census records - what birthplace is given for him?

If you have him on the 1851 census - could you post full details of the entry please?
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Carlin (Ireland & Liverpool) Doughty & Wright (Liverpool) Dick & Park (Scotland & Liverpool)

Offline Annette7

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,009
    • View Profile
Re: My dead end: Frederick John OWEN
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 08 March 16 02:53 GMT (UK) »
Can find 3 children baptised to a John (glass cutter) and Mary Ann - Mary Ann 1824, John 1826 and Robert Edward 1830 and have found them in St. James, Westminster on 1841 census with a further child Henry bc.1833.

However, the only one of these five that I can find after 1841 is Robert Edward??

You say you are 'reasonably sure' that Frederick John Owen (married to Mary Ann Seton in 1823) is your 3rd. gt. grandfather BUT as children baptisms show father as plain John, as does 1841 Census, have you just picked on this one as right time/right place who married a Mary Ann??   Or do you have a copy of Roberts (or one of the other childrens') marriage certificate naming Frederick John Owen as father?

If nothing else actually refers to 'Frederick John' I'd be extremely reluctant to claim this as the relevant marriage and 'your' man.   A more likely one to consider is a John Owen who married a Mary Ann Taylor 30/4/1820 St. Clement Danes, Westminster. 

Annette
Scopes (One-Name Study - Worldwide)
Suffolk - Grist, Knights, Bullenthorpe, Watcham
Scotland - Spence, Horne, Cowan, Moffat
London -  Monk

Don't walk behind me, I may not lead.   Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow.   Just walk beside me and be my friend.

Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline jennifer c

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 7,759
  • Latest bud on my family tree
    • View Profile
Re: My dead end: Frederick John OWEN
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 08 March 16 10:03 GMT (UK) »
What facts are you exactly sure of and we will work from there.

Lots of people more than willing to help you sort it out on here.

Jennifer :D
Stevens /Godfrey /Rudgley /Claridge/ Gipson /George /Bliss
Census information is Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Offline Knoknot

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 8
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: My dead end: Frederick John OWEN
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 08 March 16 16:30 GMT (UK) »
Wow! Somewhat overwhelmed by all this helpfulness in so short a time!
My "certainty" stops at the birth record of Robert Edward OWEN on 2/5/1830 at St Martin-in-the-Fields to John, a glass cutter of Crown Ct. and Mary Ann. (Thereafter followed a string of Robert Edwards that only stopped when my Mum put her foot down!)
As John died in 1849, his only census appearance is 1841, hence no birthplace.
I guess I did rather latch onto Frederick John, mainly because Robert Edward names his firstborn Frederick (i.e. honouring his own father, as I surmised?) I wasn't able to get confirmation of Robert Edward's father as GRO couldn't find the marriage cert. at the vol. and page in the index! Grrr! I shall see if I have better luck with his siblings.
I shall also check out the St Clement Danes marriage, Annette, and see where that takes me.
Thanks to you all - still struggling with how to work this site, but looks as though it will be very useful.

Offline Annette7

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,009
    • View Profile
Re: My dead end: Frederick John OWEN
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 08 March 16 18:54 GMT (UK) »
If you got the marriage reference from either Ancestry or FreeBMD they appear to have the ref. as Vol.1b Page 530 - having checked online original pages and the other people involved it appears the actual page no. is 550 not 530.

Annette
Scopes (One-Name Study - Worldwide)
Suffolk - Grist, Knights, Bullenthorpe, Watcham
Scotland - Spence, Horne, Cowan, Moffat
London -  Monk

Don't walk behind me, I may not lead.   Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow.   Just walk beside me and be my friend.

Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Knoknot

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 8
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: My dead end: Frederick John OWEN
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 08 March 16 20:44 GMT (UK) »
Indeed, Annette7, I got the vol/page ref. from Ancestry originally and checked FreeBMD on the National Archive. I just repeated the search using p.550 and got 'no result'. So, I'm curious to know how you came up with 550, but I shall try and order a certificate anyway and keep fingers crossed!
I shall also order a cert. for one of the sibs; just hoping they lived to marriageable age, which many of my London ancestors didn't manage. A lethal cocktail of TB and poverty, alas!
I really appreciate the help.
Thanks

Offline keyboard86

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 17,056
    • View Profile
Re: My dead end: Frederick John OWEN
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 08 March 16 20:47 GMT (UK) »
Hi FindMyPast have the marriage 1b 550

Keyboard86
Pelly/Pelley/Kingsbury/Challis/Nalder/Rochester/Raydenbow

UK Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Lily M

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 809
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: My dead end: Frederick John OWEN
« Reply #8 on: Tuesday 08 March 16 21:24 GMT (UK) »
There's a marriage for Mary Ann Owen to Thomas James Bill  21st Feb.1847
St James, Westminster

Spinster living Carnaby St.
Father John Owen deceased - glass cutter

Witnesses William Guy and Jane Mound