Henry Mower and Son Henry William Mower

[avm228]

Ah.  Well that really puts a cat among the pigeons, doesn't it!

The baptism record for Katherine Sarah born 1881 is a possible link to the destitute (married) M.A. Mower with daughters Catherine (b 1881) and Margaret entering Princes St workhouse in April 1883.

Meanwhile also in April 1883 Mary Ann Doyle (single) shows up in what seems to be Whitechapel Union workhouse with sons William and Alfred - and the later (1885) resettlement record positively links THIS Mary Ann and these children to Lavender Place.

And Mary Ann Doyle at 3 Lavender Place in the 1881 census (3 April 1881) does not have a newborn Sarah or Catherine/Katherine with her at all, the only recorded child in the household being 1 yr old Eliza.

My head hurts!  Will keep thinking.

[Betty19]

Eliza is listed as the granddaughter

I am glad to share my confusion at last

[jonwarrn]

So confusing, but the 1885 record says that Mary Ann Doyle was born in Lavender Place, St George in the East. Doesn't say she was living there circa 1881.
Ditto the settlement exam in St George in the East when she was about 23 (in the exam books) Born 4 Lavender Place. Lived there many years. Irish parents, John and Norah nee Devine. John worked for Knights Soap? Later back with parents at Half Nichol Street Bethnal Green, then White Lion Sq or St (Bishopsgate?)

Perhaps in 1881 that Mary Doyle (25, born St George East) might to be with her mother Ann (or step mother, I'm not sure) and her sister Ellen, 28, at 29 Old Nichol Street, Bethnal Green. See also 1861 at 4 Lavender Place where there is an Ellen Doyle, 8. Remembering the father had been dead 5 years in 1885
If that's her, don't know where any children of hers might be.

Would appear that it's a different Doyle family - yours - who are later at Lavender Place, as suggested? Coincidence. And you said Mary Ann Mower's father was James Doyle, not John

[jonwarrn]

Mary's son William might be the grandson William Connor, 3, born Shoreditch, in 1881?

[Betty19]

Firstly thank you so much I am finding this very addictive , very frustrating but really fascinating.

I wonder how much bending of the facts when on back then.

No William could not have been born in 1881 Sarah A E was Born in 1881 that is a least true
When Sarah A E who we know to be illegitimate married for the second time to Joseph Watson age 54 living at 51 Lawrence Road West Ham  1917 she has put down her father as Joseph Jones a Watchman and there are still family members who remember him.

What has happened to all the children of Mary Ann Doyle

I think she deserves a tv series
I found a fantastic picture of Lavender place on the net but it will not let me send
Not the sort of place you want to visit on a dark night.

[jonwarrn]

Hi
The problem is, there are two Mary Ann Doyles, but there seems to be a difference of opinion on here as to which one is yours.
Your lady married Mr Mower and then later married Joseph Jones. Second marriage at St Paul Deptford, 9 October 1890, as Mary Ann Muir, a widow. Age 33, father James Doyle, deceased.

I am concurring with avm228.
We can absolutely eliminate the one born in Lavender Place in 1855, it is not your Mary, her father was John, she had illegitimate children but not the ones you are interested in. She is the one removed from Shoreditch.

The second Mary is living in Lavender Place in 1881. That is your lady, and she is very likely to be the Mary Ann Doyle who was baptised in August 1858, St George in the East, parents James and Ann, as again detailed by avm228.

Do you have Mary in 1891? Who were the children with her?
John

[jonwarrn]

1891 she is in Canning Town
Parish West Ham
piece 1326 folio 91 page 29
Joseph Jones Head 36 Watchman (as on marriage)
Mary A Jones Wife 33, born London St Georges
Ann Doyle Mother 67 St Georges
Catherine Jones Daughter 10 St Georges

[jonwarrn]

It seems that all the Mower/Muir children died

In St George in the East district -
Annette found the death of Henry William as Mawer in Sep 1884, age 0
Margaret Mower died March 1885, age 2
Eliza Mower died March 1886, age 0

Baptism of Mary Ann Muir, 12 May 1887, was a private one, in the margin it says died May 1887 R.I.P

Leaving Catherine Doyle/Jones who may be Sarah?

[jonwarrn]

Baptism at St Peter London Docks
3 April 1877
born 11 March 1877
Eliza
mother Mary Anne Doyle
abode 2 Choppin's Court
Single Woman

(birth registered March qtr 1877 St Geo. East)

Death
Sep 1882 St Geo. East 1c 269
Doyle, Eliza
age 3
(modified - but if her, should be 5!)

Birth
March 1881 St Geo. East 1c 457
Doyle, Sarah Ann E.

You have given us the details from the cert
And the baptism, same birth date, where her name is Katherine Sarah
So Catherine Jones, 10 in 1891, appears to be Sarah Ann Elizabeth Doyle.
John