Author Topic: Kock Elders - can anyone tell me what it means  (Read 2787 times)

Offline GR2

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Re: Kock Elders - can anyone tell me what it means
« Reply #9 on: Thursday 24 March 16 06:30 GMT (UK) »
This looks like an extract from the minutes of the kirk session. The session was a kind of court consisting of the parish minister and the elders of the kirk. Their doings were recorded by the session clerk. Sedt is an abbreviation of the Latin word sederunt, which means "they sat". It comes before the list of those present at a meeting.

The minister was in the chair (unless he was absent when an elder would do it). The chairman was called the moderator (abbreviated here to Modr). Because William Morison is given the title Master (Mr), he will be the minister. Mr at that period was not a general title for a man, but was used of men who had a Master of Arts degree from a university.

Koch/Kock is a placename.

The elders (the two Hectors here) were respectable members of the community, usually chosen from different areas of the parish, who assisted the minister in the care of the congregation. Because they are both described as "of" a place, they are the owners of that piece of land. John is a tenant, because it says "in" before the place he lives.

The minutes would be recorded by the session clerk. He was usually the parish schoolmaster.

"Coll" here means the laird of Coll. Landowners were often referred to by the name of their land. "G - man" is perhaps a mistranscription of tacksman, a higher class of tenant, often a relative of the laird.

Offline Lauraine

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Re: Kock Elders - can anyone tell me what it means
« Reply #10 on: Thursday 24 March 16 06:38 GMT (UK) »
Sorry but I was trying to find out if it was a surname.  Its just that in researching since asking have found that "Koch" is a Jewish name but the people in Scotland from about 1500+ were Christians.  Thus the "Elder".  Guess I should not have asked the question before researching the "Kock Elder" or "Kock" name.
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Offline Ruskie

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Re: Kock Elders - can anyone tell me what it means
« Reply #11 on: Thursday 24 March 16 06:41 GMT (UK) »
Excellent explanation GR2. Very interesting.

I did find this:
knock = knok = Gael cnoc n a small hill or hillock, especially one in isolation

However Koch/k is not the same as knock is it GR8?.

What does the "Elders" refer to? Is it just a surname, so saying Kock Elders is similar to saying "Someone's land", as you often see in Scotland? :-\

Offline Ruskie

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Re: Kock Elders - can anyone tell me what it means
« Reply #12 on: Thursday 24 March 16 06:44 GMT (UK) »
Oh, so you thought Kock Elder was a person's name?


Offline jaybelnz

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Re: Kock Elders - can anyone tell me what it means
« Reply #13 on: Thursday 24 March 16 06:49 GMT (UK) »
I actually thought it might have been Kirk Elders!
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Offline Ruskie

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Re: Kock Elders - can anyone tell me what it means
« Reply #14 on: Thursday 24 March 16 06:52 GMT (UK) »
If you click on my link at reply #3 you will see a not very good copy of the original. You can click on it to enlarge the image and it does look like Koch/k.

Offline Lauraine

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Re: Kock Elders - can anyone tell me what it means
« Reply #15 on: Thursday 24 March 16 06:57 GMT (UK) »
Thank you all for helping me out.  Still think that the "Kocks" had something to do with this.  Would the church make people elders of a farm held originally by the Kocks?  Just curious.  Know little about the systems in England & ownership of lands seems to be a fairly recent occurrence for anyone but the very wealthy.  Most of my relatives were fishermen or farmers but none seemed to own any land.  Since someone found the site where this was posted, everyone can look at it.  Computers are amazing!

Am going to Scotland in May - a life time dream & will be spending the 1st week in Shetland.
Researching Smith from Shetland, Herd from Arboath, Whittier, Combs from England & Wales plus Albrecht (Albright), Carkner (Kirchner) & Syrnyk (Syrnick) from Prussia. Laurenson in South Africa

Offline Lauraine

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Re: Kock Elders - can anyone tell me what it means
« Reply #16 on: Thursday 24 March 16 07:01 GMT (UK) »
Thank you so much for giving the explanation GR 2 :)
Researching Smith from Shetland, Herd from Arboath, Whittier, Combs from England & Wales plus Albrecht (Albright), Carkner (Kirchner) & Syrnyk (Syrnick) from Prussia. Laurenson in South Africa

Offline Guy Etchells

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Re: Kock Elders - can anyone tell me what it means
« Reply #17 on: Thursday 24 March 16 07:01 GMT (UK) »
Sorry about that - was enquiring because one of the moderators in the N. America was asking about it.  Her name is Brenda Dougall Merriman:  The document was written in 1733 & part of it says:
Cliad 18th febrie 1733
Sedt after prayer
Mr. Wm Morison Modr
Hector McLean of Torraston
Hector McLean of Kock Elders
Lachlan McLean ----- [G-rman?]
to Coll and John McLean in
Grishaboll sessioners
Upon on a report given in to the



I wonder about the transcription, the image on the blog is poor but if we look at the Isle of Coll the following places are shown

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01hbk/

Cliad
Torraston
Kock Elders – Hogh (Rudha Hogh)
Coll
Grishaboll – Grishipoll

There seems to be no doubt the first letter of Hector is H if that is the case why could the K in Kock Elders not be a H also?
If it is H then Rudha Hogh is close to Grishipoll.
I have not looked at the rest of the island and I don’t like twisting information to suit localities but from the poor image available I would suggest it is a possibility.

The first thing I would try to get would be a better image of the record.

Cheers
Guy

PS the Elders would be either Kirk (church) Elders living in Hogh or elders of Hogh church if there was one
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