Author Topic: PLUNKETT to SMYTH  (Read 1416 times)

Offline Patroy

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PLUNKETT to SMYTH
« on: Friday 25 March 16 09:11 GMT (UK) »
Morning all, ready to tear my hair out but before I do could I ask for fresh eyes to look at this please.

I have William PLUNKETT on the 1871 and 1881 census in Liverpool, he is with his wife Catherine. We know Catherine is a SMYTH and she was born 1843 in Dublin (we have the baptism).

They have a child Mary born c1865 and I have the baptism in Bohermeen (there is also a William John the same age but no birth place) shown on the 1871 census as being born in Ireland so would assume they married in Ireland.

Nowhere can I find a marriage for William and Catherine, would welcome your thoughts please. Thank you

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Offline Sinann

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Re: PLUNKETT to SMYTH
« Reply #1 on: Friday 25 March 16 09:33 GMT (UK) »
If you don't have her marriage to get her father's name how do you know you have the correct baptism?
What religious denomination were they?
You can't fish on a empty stomach so give the man one or two records so he knows how good it tastes.

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Offline Patroy

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Re: PLUNKETT to SMYTH
« Reply #2 on: Friday 25 March 16 09:46 GMT (UK) »
On the 1881 census they are shown living in Liverpool with mother in law Smyth. 

One of their children Charles joined the Liverpool Regiment as a child, obviously didn't like it as we next found him on a ship's list as a stowaway bound for Australia.  He stayed in Australia and variously gave his mother's surname as Smith/Smyth/Callahan.

On the basis of this information we established that Smyth (the mother in law) was a Callahan prior to marriage and had married a Smyth.

They were Roman Catholic.


Offline aghadowey

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Re: PLUNKETT to SMYTH
« Reply #3 on: Friday 25 March 16 09:54 GMT (UK) »
Civil registration of Catholic marriages started in 1864 so they could have been married in a Catholic ceremony earlier and thus not appear in the civil registration index.

There is a possibility that Catherine's maiden name wasn't Smyth.
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Offline Sinann

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Re: PLUNKETT to SMYTH
« Reply #4 on: Friday 25 March 16 10:41 GMT (UK) »
You can't fish on a empty stomach so give the man one or two records so he knows how good it tastes.

Offline Patroy

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Re: PLUNKETT to SMYTH
« Reply #5 on: Friday 25 March 16 13:08 GMT (UK) »
Yes that is the baptism we believe belongs to Catherine Smyth.

On FindMyPast I put in just the surnames of both parties and it came up with Catherine Smyth and a list of people who she may have married, one of which was Bernard Plunkett.

Offline aghadowey

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Re: PLUNKETT to SMYTH
« Reply #6 on: Friday 25 March 16 13:25 GMT (UK) »
Very confused here  :-\

I have William PLUNKETT on the 1871 and 1881 census in Liverpool, he is with his wife Catherine. We know Catherine is a SMYTH and she was born 1843 in Dublin (we have the baptism).
They have a child Mary born c1865 and I have the baptism in Bohermeen (there is also a William John the same age but no birth place) shown on the 1871 census as being born in Ireland so would assume they married in Ireland.
Nowhere can I find a marriage for William and Catherine


yet now
On FindMyPast I put in just the surnames of both parties and it came up with Catherine Smyth and a list of people who she may have married, one of which was Bernard Plunkett.
Please do NOT ask for lookups by Personal Message.

Offline Patroy

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Re: PLUNKETT to SMYTH
« Reply #7 on: Friday 25 March 16 13:34 GMT (UK) »
Apologies if I have confused you.

The census returns show William Plunkett and Catherine. The 1871 census shows mother in law, Mary Smith, aged 66, born Ireland

I was trying to explain that I had wondered if they were just using the names William and Catherine so I had searched for a marriage between Smyth and Plunkett.  There was a result which showed that a Catherine Smyth had married one of a list of people, from the list one of those people was a Bernard Plunkett.  I could be grasping at straws and want to believe that William is really Bernard but the fact that they named their first born son William John it is highly unlikely.

Offline aghadowey

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Re: PLUNKETT to SMYTH
« Reply #8 on: Friday 25 March 16 15:36 GMT (UK) »
You've started with the assumption that because 'mother-in-law' was Smith that Catherine's maiden name was also Smith which may or may not be correct.
Next you've found a Dublin baptism for a Catherine Smith with mother Mary and assumed it's the correct person.
Lastly you searched for a Plunkett-Smith marriage and come up with groom as Bernard Plunkett...

1) Mary Smith may be Catherine's mother but she could have been married more than once or had Catherine before marriage
2) Not all records are online and there doesn't seem to be any way, at the moment, of known if this is the correct person
3) again, not all records online

They have a child Mary born c1865 and I have the baptism in Bohermeen (there is also a William John the same age but no birth place) shown on the 1871 census as being born in Ireland so would assume they married in Ireland.
Bohermeen is about 35 miles from Dublin. How have you established that this Mary is a daughter?

Best to start by establishing Catherine's maiden name then work back. Any of the children born in Ireland after 1864? or any at all born in England?
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