Woodgrange Park Cemetary

[Betty19]

How long has it been since anyone attended the grave

[Betty19]

I wish I had known yesterday I would have looked for you
I get the impression that they would really rather people did not attend the older graves as they can then sell the plot on .

[jbml]

Information now found ... square 27, where my ancestors were buried, was in a block that was cleared in about 1984 and is now a muslim burial area. No idea where the remains or the memorial stone have gone.

[Betty19]

I am so sorry, that is a terrible shame the only new graves are Muslim graves . The only work being done in the Cemetary is the clearance of the old to make way for the new . Like I said no money in old bones.
And then in amongst all the discarded headstones and brambles you get a few graves were the relatives are still around but it will not be long before they are all gone .

[jbml]

Betty -

I have no living relatives who knew three out of my four ancestors who were buried there (two great x3 grandparents and two great great grandparents). My great aunt, who is now 81, knew the last of them (her grandmother) and used to tend the grave. But she lives in Kent now and cannot make the journey.

I was prepared for something like this ... I have seen a letter from a first cousin once removed to my great aunt, written some time ago, saying that the grave was overgrown and almost impossible to locate now ...

[smudwhisk]

Unfortunately reuse of graves, particularly in places like London where there is only finite space, is become all too common.  With a number of the older original cemeteries designated nature reserves, more pressure is placed on reuse in those currently accepted burials.  While I appreciate the reason behind this designation, in the case of some which are seriously overgrown (Camberwell Old being one I have seen), it does make you wonder whether this really is a suitable use of finite burial space.

My great grandparents grave in Camberwell New is apparently now on the reuse list because it was 75 years since the last internment this February, in spite of it being purchased on a 100 year lease.  More recent graves there are by default apparently only 50 years long, unless you pay for it to be extended up to 100 years and if you don't live in the borough, it is very expensive.  We were advised that we could pay to become grave owner to replace my Great Aunt who died in 1972, but we worked out that it would probably cost us about £170 or so to do this because of obtaining the necessary documents and getting them notarised for proof that we were her descendants (she died without issue and her surviving sister was probably the beneficiary, and my father and his brother were the sister's beneficiary).  Then all we could do would be to object to the reuse for another 19 years until the 100 year lease expires.  We decided it just wasn't worth it. 

Obviously this applies to a Local Authority cemetery but I suspect the rules are the same for privately owned cemeteries such as Woodgrange, or of course they could be even more restrictive.  Unfortunately the edict issued by the Mayor of London a few years back allowing cemeteries to reuse graves after 75 years even on a 100 year lease means that many will get reused earlier than expected.  However, I think the 50 year initial lease on graves started in the 1960s or sometime around then, so their reuse is even earlier unless someone pays to extend it to 100 years. 

My grandparents are also in Camberwell New, my grandfather died in 1944 and my grandmother in 1996, so there is 28 years until that grave will be reused, albeit she will only have been in there 48 years when it is.

[jaybelnz]

Smudwhisk, I have the following info from Family Search - possibly my great great Grandmother!

I had emailed the Camberwell Register Office and the Cemeteries people to enquiry about it, - only the Register office replied " we have no record of this person" - I had also asked them to look for the spelling of the as either Name Mathews or Matthews


Mary Jane Matthews
England and Wales Death Registration Index 1837-2007
Name   Mary Jane Matthews
Event Type   Death
Registration Quarter   Oct-Nov-Dec
Registration Year   1872
Registration District   Camberwell
County   London
Event Place   Camberwell, London, England
Volume   1D
Page   369
Line Number   229


I thought it was strange that they had no record, when the details in the above are so clear! The year matched well too, as I have her in Stockwell in the 1871 census, and on her husband's 1873 death certificate (he died at sea) he is stated to be a widower!   Crazy!

It's such a shame that old cemeteries are falling into disrepair, or "disappearing " I suppose that's understandable in some ways, but surely even some kind of register should be made up of the graves that have been demolished or moved in the name of progress!

[smudwhisk]

There is burial for a Mary Jane Matthews 25 Oct 1872 at Camberwell Old within the registers on www.deceasedonline.com.  They have the cemetery registers for Southwark Borough, and Lewisham and others.  They are free to search and you get the burial date, you only pay to get a copy of the burial register.

Edit - you probably will get an address on the burial register.  My 2xGreat Grandmother was buried in there in 1888 and there is an address for her.  This may help confirm if it is the correct person.

[smudwhisk]

Judging by the fact there are 21 other internments in the grave, it would appear to be a public grave, not necessarily what would be called a paupers grave as from what I've read about multiple occupancy graves in London and I've relatives in quite a few where there are multiple internments.