Occupation of unmarried women on English Death Certificates

[Meelystar]

So two certificates:

First is 1871. Occupation just says ‘Housemaid’.

Second is 1931 so perhaps too late to be of interest. Occupation is ‘spinster, no occupation
daughter of _______ Mooney a ______’

I would have uploaded snippets but they were too big and I have no way of making them smaller (I phone).

To put these certificates into context, neither of them are registered by family members.

[cuffie81]

For what's it's worth, a few stats from the death certificates I have of spinsters.

Number of certificates:	12
Father's name recorded:	8
Father's occupation recorded:	7
Father recorded as deceased:	5
Informant recorded as relative:	5
Informant is known relative:	6
Deceased's occupation recorded:	6 (2: no occ; 1: independent)

Year range of deaths: 1842-1939

Age at death:

18-19		2
20-29		0
30-39		0
40-49		2
50-59		1
60-69		1
70-79		1
80+		5
Total		12

EDIT: Corrected stats as I'd inadvertently included a child in the records

[venelow]

Thank you to Guy, Meelystar and Cuffie 81 for further input into this question.

Cuffie wins the prize for having the most spinster certificates! Very impressive and thorough Cuffie.

The 1950 cert I have is actually two certs. The first has a notation like Meelystar's.

Spinster no occupation daughter of

_________  Surname  a _______     

The second is a correction. Her surname was spelled incorrectly on the first cert and was corrected and the blanks for forename and father's occupation filled in.

I have sent Alan a PM re his question.
Thanks to Alan the thread was revived and some positive examples were provided.

Stay Safe Everyone

Venelow
Canada

[chris_49]

I confess I don't have any spinster death certs - other priorities, obviously, chiefly adults of working age. But a related question is the lack of occupation shown for some unmarried women on the 1939 register. (I'm less surprised at those on censuses up to 1911, those were different times - you get comments like "helps in the house").

But my mother's occupation was blank in 1939, when she was 25, I know that she worked at various jobs before the war, and soon would be recruited for the war effort, but I suppose she might not have been working on that precise date. Her mother supplemented the family income by baking cakes for sale, but that isn't shown either. Another relative was a piano teacher but neither is that  shown, and there are other cases where I'm less certain. Anybody else find this?

[DianaCanada]

I think I have only purchased one spinster's death certificate, but not sure.  After reading through this thread, I think I should buy one for a "probable" spinster relative in Yorkshire, who lived a good long life and I believe is the sister of my ancestor John Burrows/Barras.  She is living with one of his sons in 1861, just listed as "relative".
The certificate I do have:
Died 18 Feb 1930, 1 Bexley Lane, Dartford, Kent: Emily Myra St. Osyth Pollard, with her address in Greenwich, spinster, of no occupation (as written), daughter of John Metcalfe Pollard, a solicitor, deceased.  She was 53.
I put a query on another board a few years ago but no one seemed to know why her father's name was included.  Emily died in a psychiatric facility, which is why I thought her father's name was included. She did have a few siblings still alive.

[Enumerated]

In summary I have a death cert for an unmarried aunt who died after retirement age.  The registrar put her father's details on the cert.  They were not known by the informant.  Where did the info come from?  Did the registrar have to search the records to find her birth cert?

Registrars don't do any research to get the information for the certificate. All the information comes from the informant.

Why do you think the father's details were not known by the informant? They must have been or they would not be on the certificate.

Added, after further thought:-
If the informant did not know the deceased, perhaps they found the information in the deceased's effects.

[Enumerated]

It has been suggested to me that the informant in the 1860s certificate had no obligation to give the name of the deceased's father and they think the name given is fictitious. Even that the real name of her father has been deliberately concealed. Of course they have another name in mind.

1. Lying seems unlikely. What would be gained by lying.

2. The informant could have made a mistake and got his grandfather's name wrong. Is that likely?

3. My opinion,  for what it's worth, is that the informant gave the correct information and that the baptism that has been found is not the right one. The correct baptism record may not be online - not everything is.

[AlanJD]

In summary I have a death cert for an unmarried aunt who died after retirement age.  The registrar put her father's details on the cert.  They were not known by the informant.  Where did the info come from?  Did the registrar have to search the records to find her birth cert?

Registrars don't do any research to get the information for the certificate. All the information comes from the informant.

Why do you think the father's details were not known by the informant? They must have been or they would not be on the certificate.

Added, after further thought:-
If the informant did not know the deceased, perhaps they found the information in the deceased's effects.

For at least 70 years my aunt used a different surname to that on her birth cert.  The death cert uses both names and shows father's data from the birth cert.  All this was DEFINITELY unknown to the relative notifying the death.  He said "ABC is dead" and was told "You mean XYZ".  Venelow has made a very useful suggestion that perhaps in 1948 when she became eligible for an old age pension she had to obtain a birth cert and therefore the registrar was aware of the original record.  Until then she may not even have been aware of the name on her birth cert.

[venelow]

Hello Enumerated

Your opinion as outlined in point number three is my opinion also. I think it most probable that the baptism took place in a non-conformist religion and the pre-1800 records no longer exist. Or maybe she was never baptized.
About twenty years ago, when I was starting my research, I was corresponding with an experienced researcher who told me he agreed with another researcher that the name on the certificate was not correct and possibly made up. Both these researchers have now passed. So I cannot debate the point with them.

It occurred to me that maybe they had not encountered a death record for an unmarried woman before.

Venelow