Tillstone/Wisdom families of Sussex

[Jacquelyn McGlinchey]

Hello,

I am looking for information about the Wisdom or Tillstone families of Glynde and Lewes, Sussex. My third great grandmother was Elizabeth Tillstone born on 28 July 1808, Leeds, England (I have Joseph Tillstone and Frances Williamson Tillstone as her parents). She married Clayton Wisdom on 2 August 1828 in Ringmer, Sussex, England. Clayton was born 6 Jun 1802 in Glynde, Sussex, England. I think I have a handle on Clayton's family, I really need more information on Elizabeth Tillstone, her parents. According to family legend (according to Elizabeth herself via her son as printed in an obituary), Elizabeth was from a gentleman's family and lived in a grand manor house. She was disowned by her family because she married Clayton, a gamekeeper or son of a gamekeeper. They immigrated to America (Michigan, where I am presently).

I am looking to either prove or disprove Elizabeth's story. I cannot find much for an Elizabeth Tillstone from a gentle family of Sussex, or much for an Elizabeth Tillstone at all, other than for a spinster lady. Does anybody out there have any information about the Tillstone family of Sussex?

Thank you,

Jacquelyn McGlinchey

[maddys52]

Hello Jacquelyn and welcome to rootschat,

I can't really offer any knowledge about the Tillstone family, however there are a few threads already here on rootschat that might be of help, such as http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=395090.0
If you use the search function on the toolbar you'll find a couple more.

Also, there appears to have been an estate in Patcham (close to Lewes) called Moulsecombe, which was owned by a Tillstone family in the 1830s, a little about it here:
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/vch/sussex/vol7/pp216-220
and in "A Compendious History of Sussex" published 1870 (have a look on googlebooks) although this would be a bit late for your Elizabeth to be connected with, unless she was telling a white lie. 

I'm sure some experts in the Sussex area will be along soon to help more!

[sillgen]

Hi and welcome
How do you know Elizabeth's date and place of birth?  Was it in the obituary?   Unless it was Leeds Castle in Kent then the birthplace of Leeds will be the Leeds in Yorkshire.  Does that fit with the marriage of her parents?
There are several Tillstone marriages in the Ringmer/Lewes area.
Have you looked at the marriage entry to see if it holds further clues?    The transcript I have says botp but of course that is only at the time of the marriage.
Clayton is described as a labourer at the baptism of their child Amis in 1829.
When did they go to Michigan?   

[Fairmeadow2]

Hi Jacqueline

I can confirm that there is a Ringmer marriage for Clayton WISDOM & Elizabeth TILLSTONE at Ringmeron 2 Aug 1828, when both were 'of this parish' and the marriage was by banns. There is then one baptism of Avis WISDOM, son of of Clayton WISDOM, labourer, and his wife Elizabeth at Ringmer on 25 Oct 1829. Then we don't see them here again.

Neither was baptised at Ringmer. At the time Ringmer was a large and pretty impoverished 'open' parish with large scale unemployment and most farm labourers hired by the day. People came and went, and only those legally settled in Ringmer were entitled to benefit from the parish-run social security system.

Don't know where Elizabeth came from, but lots of WISDOMs through the 18th & 19th centuries in the adjacent 'closed' parish of Glynde, a small downland parish dominated by the Glynde and Glyndebourne estates. As you say, Clayton was baptised (not born) there on 6 Jun 1802, in the middle of the large family of John & Philadelphia. I haven't personally sorted out the interrelated WISDOMs of Glynde, but I can put you in touch with someone who has. There is still a house called 'Wisdoms' there, and they were mostly of the 'middling sort'. One family member, William Wisdom, wrote a long journal of his life and memories there, that has been published.

In 1830 Ringmer parish paid for some of its legally settled families to travel on a one way trip to North America. £10 to a ship's captain and they were off your books for good! I don't think the WISDOMs were included.

[Fairmeadow2]

Hi Jacqueline.

When someone speaks of a family in the 18th/early 19th century, this can include not only blood relatives but also people we would describe as resident servants, young single people hired by the year. People in those days were much too smart to try to bring up their own teenagers, and most youngsters were found a place, usually a step or two up the social scale, at about 13. Legally they joined their new "family" after they had completed a year's service - an important concept at the time, as this transferred their legal settlement to their new family's parish. So a servant girl from a grand mansion (e.g. Glynde Place or Glyndebourne round here) might well consider herself a cut above the son of a village tradesman.

My grandparents were both nurses when they married, but my grandmother's family always thought she had married down, because she was an auctioneer's daughter (albeit one with a very large family) while his father was a country stonemason, a working man. He always paid his dues on the nail, a characteristic of the 'respectable' working class, while she inherited a middle class attitude to credit that infuriated him. England was steeped in microdistinctions of social class - some might say it still is.

[Fairmeadow2]

Hi Jacqueline

Apologies, I mistyped Avis above for the name of Clayton & Elizabeth's son. It is Amis.

[Fairmeadow2]

Couple of links to William WISDOM of Glynde and his journal

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/rd/f53c29bc-fefb-477b-a8ca-bbf2f54a6b62

http://www.thekeep.info/places/eastsussex/parishesandsettlements/glynde/

[maddys52]

Hi Jacqueline.

When someone speaks of a family in the 18th/early 19th century, this can include not only blood relatives but also people we would describe as resident servants, young single people hired by the year. People in those days were much too smart to try to bring up their own teenagers, and most youngsters were found a place, usually a step or two up the social scale, at about 13. Legally they joined their new "family" after they had completed a year's service - an important concept at the time, as this transferred their legal settlement to their new family's parish. So a servant girl from a grand mansion (e.g. Glynde Place or Glyndebourne round here) might well consider herself a cut above the son of a village tradesman.

My grandparents were both nurses when they married, but my grandmother's family always thought she had married down, because she was an auctioneer's daughter (albeit one with a very large family) while his father was a country stonemason, a working man. He always paid his dues on the nail, a characteristic of the 'respectable' working class, while she inherited a middle class attitude to credit that infuriated him. England was steeped in microdistinctions of social class - some might say it still is.

Fairymeadow, that's such a great description of family social life in the 1800s, thank you