William Gray (Grey) & Harriet Prior (Pryor)

[bedfordshire boy]

Hi Pat

I'm nearly out of brilliant ideas on this one I'm afraid.

There were no birth certs pre 1837 so the best you can get is a copy of his baptism entry in a parish register.

That assumes that he was baptised (not everyone was) and even if he was, where?

In the two censuses in which he appears he gave his birth county as Hunts in the first and Cambs in the other. All of Cambs parish register baptisms have been transcribed onto the 1801-37 index on by Cambs FHS and he's not there.

Hunts is a different proposition as there is no central index as there is for Cambs for the likely period of his birth, and many parishes do not appear on the IGI, as the LDS was refused permission to film the registers. So for many parishes the only place to view them is at Huntingdon, which if you live in the USA or France makes life a bit difficult.

I have a feeling that he may have been born in Hunts, but it's a bit like looking for a needle in a haystack.

You can safely ignore the IGI entry of 1816 at Old Weston. The LDS church member who submitted it didn't have a clue when or where he was born so deducted 25 (it being assumed that males married at 25) from the marriage year, with the place being the same as the marriage. Pure worthless fiction!

As you know that Harriet had a legitimate father it's possible that the fathers' names were simply missed from the marriage cert, and William wasn't illegitimate at all. Alternatively, because he WAS illegitimate and didn't have a father's name to provide, Harriet left hers blank as well. Could be either.

In 1841 the head of the household was George Taylor, but one of the others in the household, possibly his brother, was Abraham Taylor.

You could try checking the parish chest entries of Alconbury Weston to see if there is any trace of a settlement certificate which would give his home parish.

I've had a look at the A2A index on http://www.a2a.org.uk/search/index.asp
and found the following
http://www.a2a.org.uk/search/documentxsl.asp?com=1&i=12&nbKey=2&stylesheet=xsl\A2A_com.xsl&keyword=gray&properties=0601

QUARTER SESSIONS BOXED PAPERS - ref.  HCP/1/40  - date: 1857
March, 1857  Hunts. Assizes: Harriet Gray 34, widow Able to read; Leaving infant child without food or covering at Buckden. Sentence deferred

This looks very much like your Harriet. You could try contacting Huntingdon Records Office to get more details, which might shed some light on William - perhaps sentence was deferred pending reports from social services. Or is that a 20th century phenomenon?

Best I can come up with I'm afraid

Good luck

Regards

David


PS Just had the most obvious thought. Could he have been baptised in Alconbury Weston? There are a lot of Gray burials there at about the time he would have been born. Post a specific look up request on the Hunt look up board for his baptism - the parish records have been transcribed by Hunts FHS are on fiche (and Ruth has already checked them on this thread!)

[pflaagan]

Thanks, David, for all your help. When you said to post a request on the Hunts board, did you mean here? I have gone ahead & done that, but maybe I'm in the wrong place?

I'm not sure how you get time to do all this searching, but I'm very grateful for all the time & help you have given me.

It's very frustrating to think that if I had started this when my grand parents were still alive, they could have answered so many of my questions. They did not come to the US until after they were married & had their first child. They had three girls, one of whom was my mother, but none of them are alive either. Living in Grand Forks, North Dakota, at the very least, slows me down & certainly limits what I can find so you can understand why I appreciate all that you have done for me.

Sincerely,
Pat 

[bedfordshire boy]

Hi Pat

Yes, you posted your request on the right board.

There is an LDS Family History Center in Grand Forks at which you can order and view microfilms of parish registers. Alconbury Weston has been filmed so if your look up request doesn't bear fruit try ordering it from the LDS

These days whilst location helps it's not always a hindrance. Grand Forks, USA, or Carcassonne, France. You can still access the internet where so much information can be found once you know where to look.  Of course you still need to check parish registers and you are fortunate in having the LDS in your town

Don't we all wish we had asked more questions when parents/grandparents were still alive!

Regards

David

[Beckey]

Hi Pat,

Is this of any use.
1851 Alconbury Weston HO 107/1748 Folio 308b 53.

William Gray  H  M  35  Ag.Lab.     Cam  Well.
Harriet Gray  Wf  M  29  Carrier   Nth Winwick.
Joseph Gray  S          7                Hun  Alby Weston.
Reuben Gray S          5                  "       "        "
Prior  Gray     S          3                  "       "       "
Ruth Amelia Gray  D  2                  "        "      "
William John Gray S   1                  "       "        "

[pflaagan]

Hi, Becky. That is my family, but the "Camb Well" after William's name has me stumped. I don't know where to find his birth place so I can send for a cert.

It is interesting to see Amelia listed as Ruth Amelia. I will start over finding her under her other name.

Thanks so much,
Sincerely,

Pat

[pflaagan]

Hi. I have found Wm Gray in the 1841 census living with Abraham Taylor & James Taylor. It gives the date of 1816 for the birth of Wm Gray & the place as Huntingdonshire. The civil parish is Alconbury Weston. I'm pretty sure this is my William Gray because Abraham Taylor was one of the witnesses on his marriage certificate. He was married to Harriet Prior in 1841 at Old Weston.

 Even though the places of his birth vary, they seem to agree on the year of 1816., & Alconbury Weston is mentioned the most.  Do you think that is enough information to request a look-up?

Sincerely,
Pat

[bedfordshire boy]

Hi Pat

Not sure what you mean by "request a look up". I thought you had requested a look up on the Requests board, but have had no replies. Some people request look ups with no information at all other than name, so you've got a mine of detail! There are no central baptism registers for Hunts other than the IGI and the BVRI which are both very incomplete, so a general lookup is not possible.

You can order the the Alconbury Weston microfilm from the LDS in your home town, Grand Forks, or you can buy the transcription on microfiche from Hunts FHS ( http://www.huntsfhs.org.uk/Publications/Fiche-8.html )

But I've just checked the BVRI and find that it contains Alconbury Weston baptisms and there's nothing showing around 1816. But there were Gray families living in the parish at that time judging by the burials that took place ie John aged 26 on 2 Jan 1815 and Charles aged 27 on 22 Apr 1817, either of whom might have been your William's father.

There were no Gray baptisms in Alconbury Weston between 1805, dau of Samuel and Ann (who married in 1802)  and 1819 son of William and Mary Ann (married 1818, Wm was a widower - might your Wm have been from his first marriage?)

The only "reliable" age for William is in the 1851 census and that might be inaccurate. Ages over 15 in 1841 were rounded down to the 5 below so 25 could be anywhere between 25 and 29 ie birth between June 1811 and June 1816

Lots of "might"s but no hard facts I'm afraid.

But it doesn't look as though he was baptised in Alconbury Weston, although it would be a good idea to doublecheck the parish register. The family might of course have been non-conformist so didn't baptise their children in the established church.

As mentioned before, I would check with Huntingdon Records Office for details of that court case , and at the same time ask them if there are any parish chest records for Alconbury Weston.

Not sure if you've mentioned this earlier, but do you have his death certificate? It might just add something. Or his burial entry which might give his age? When you're struggling you need every scrap of information you can get.

Regards

David


PS I've just been going over the history of your requests, going back to 2004. In a very early thread you said you had information that he was christened at Southoe. Did you ever check the microfilm of Southoe parish register (film #  1040751)? They're not on the IGI or BVRI, nor is a transcription available, so the LDS microfilm is your only option - other than paying Huntingdon Records Office to look it up. You need to check out all leads before starting the search for the needle in the haystack.

[pflaagan]

Hi, David. You are right. I did post a request. When I began all of this, I was using a genealogy compiled by a distant Gray relative (Alfred) who was born & died in the USA. He had done some research in England using what he knew from his father, William John b 1893, who was the son of William John b 1850 (migrated to the US), son of William & Harriet (Pryor/Prior) Gray. (These people really liked to use the same names over & over!)

I'm not sure how he came up with Southoe as the place of christening, but he had the date as 11 Oct 1818. I found this family, but William seemed to disappear early on, & I couldn't find any information to support this place.

The other information he had was as follows:
Children: Joseph b 1840 (changed his last name to Tayor to get into military service). Rhuben b 1842-6 (my g grandfather). Amelia b 1844 (came to the US). George Pryor b 1846 (came to the US, & I know some of that family). William John b 1850 (came to the US, & I also know some of that family).
Alfred b 1852 (came to US but went back to England).

In the 1881 census Rhuben is listed as a publican & farmer of 60 acres imploying 1 lab dwelling at Speed the Plough-Fen Public House, Woodwalton, Huntingdon where all their children were born with the exception of my grandfather who was born at Chatteris. (I have a note that says there was a William Gray listed in Pigot's, 1830, page 111.) Haven't found a copy of that directory yet.

In typing this I think I might be trying to go back too fast. I don't have my great grandfather's birth certificate. I know he was born at Alconbury, but would it give more information about his father?

The closest I can come for a death date for William is between 1852 & 1854 when Harriet married William Oliver.

Now that I've given you more information than you ever wanted to read,  what do you suggest?

Sincerely,
Pat

[bedfordshire boy]

Hi Pat

On 17 Sept 2004 I suggested that you view the Southoe parish register at the LDS. That advice still holds good. As you have a LDS FHC in your home town hopefully that should be possible. It's not something that anyone else can do for you short of going to Huntingdon Records Office.

However in that same post I gave you details of a Southoe Gray family in 1841 and I wonder now if Southoe is a total red herring having found what seems to be the right William in Alconbury Weston in 1841. As the Southoe William was still at home unmarried in 1851 I think we can rule him out altogether, so it follows that the Southoe details obtained by your distant relative are for the wrong William.

Which is a pity as you are really back at square one!

All Rhuben's birth cert will give you is his father's name and  occupation and mother's name including maiden name.

I've had a look at Pigot's 1830 but Hunts is on pages 499-515, so I don't know what paqe 111 would cover, but it doesn't look like your William Gray - as he would only have been 14 at the time it's unlikely to be him.

I think your next step has to be to contact Huntingdon Records Office as I suggested in my previous post

Regards

David