Swales Forest

[sallyyorks]

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4) There appears to be a whole other family of Swales Forest and Jane living in Horton near Bradford listed as hawkers/ earthenware dealers/ potters so I've assumed any marriages/ baptisms in or around Bradford belong to that family.


6) I sent away for the Ripon marriage certificate for Swales Forest and Elizabeth Wilson in 1842 but it shows her being aged 30, making her birth date 1812.  The date on the 1851 census for Elizabeth (Forest) is 1826.. a big difference but could it be that they lied because Swales was 40 and she was actually 16?!

7) I have a marriage certificate for Alice Forest marrying Thomas Winter in 1860 which appears to show her age as 15 - can this be correct?!  This would make the Annais Forest listed on the 1851 census a viable option! Was 15 a viable marriage age back in 1860?

Horton went right into the centre of Bradford, so they might have been living in the centre of the city. Do you have a street name?

Yes, people did some times lie about their age.

I think you could marry age 15 in 1860 but you would need your parents consent, as you would be classed as a minor (under 21)

[Anna Harris]

Hi, no I have taken little notice of the Swales and Jane Forest family in Horton as they appear on the 1851 census also, therefore can't be anything to do with my Swales and Elizabeth up in Barnard Castle.  I've had a cursory look at their history and they appear to stay in Horton right up to both their deaths so I've regarded them as a separate entity if you know what I mean!

Good to know people lied on their marriage certificates.. I might take the Ripon marriage certificate between Swales and Elizabeth a bit more seriously and assume she was actually 16 but had no parental consent.  Hard to believe Swales and his second wife Elizabeth would consent to their 15 year old daughter marrying 19 year old Thomas Winter!  Funny how you start to build up an idea of people's characters!

[Jomot]

Yes, Annias is shown as being born Stockton, not Sunderland on the 1851 Barnard Castle census. 

If Swale was a potter then there was a pottery just over the border in Thornaby / South Stockton, so if you don't already have her birth its worth widening the search to include Middlesbrough RD.

[Anna Harris]

OK, thanks.. I can't find her birth at all.

[sallyyorks]

Hi, no I have taken little notice of the Swales and Jane Forest family in Horton as they appear on the 1851 census also, therefore can't be anything to do with my Swales and Elizabeth up in Barnard Castle.  I've had a cursory look at their history and they appear to stay in Horton right up to both their deaths so I've regarded them as a separate entity if you know what I mean!

Good to know people lied on their marriage certificates.. I might take the Ripon marriage certificate between Swales and Elizabeth a bit more seriously and assume she was actually 16 but had no parental consent.  Hard to believe Swales and his second wife Elizabeth would consent to their 15 year old daughter marrying 19 year old Thomas Winter!  Funny how you start to build up an idea of people's characters!

I have a grt x rellie who married at about 13 years of age (according to her burial and census age). The church marriage register gives no age, it just says "with consent" of parents for both of them. Her husband was also quite young.


The Forrest's in Bradford have the same "hawker" type occupations and same unusual name. I can't help thinking they are the same family, some where back down the line. Also Jane's name was Cunningham. A name also found in Romany families in the Durham area.

There are quite a few Forrest's mentioned in rootschat topics, in the Travelling People section of this site, along with Swales, Varey, Cunningham and other families

Here are some of them

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=299597.msg3024917#msg3024917

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=467240.msg3400120#msg3400120

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=529204.msg3845158#msg3845158

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=637740.msg4863293#msg4863293

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=529143.msg4101904#msg4101904

[Anna Harris]

Right, I think I might have a plan thanks to all this discussion.  I'm going to send off for the marriage certificate of Swales Forest and Jane Cunningham in Sedgefield in 1827 and see if Swales' father is called Richard which is what his second marriage certificate to Elizabeth Wilson says.  If so, I think I can assume that they are the same person.

[Anna Harris]

Thanks SallyYorks.  I'm on a couple of Romany sites and it would appear that Wilson, Cunningham, Forest, Pickering and Swales' faimilies all intermarried.  To make my life harder, one of my Winters married a Wilson whose Mum had remarried into the Swales family so I've got Wilson, Pickering, Swales and Winters all in the mix!  Very interesting to see where they travelled by tracking their children's places of birth and christenings though.. I'm going to do a timeline for Swales Forest - if only Google maps had an icon of a horse and cart as well as a car and train lol!

[Bee]

Right, I think I might have a plan thanks to all this discussion.  I'm going to send off for the marriage certificate of Swales Forest and Jane Cunningham in Sedgefield in 1827 and see if Swales' father is called Richard which is what his second marriage certificate to Elizabeth Wilson says.  If so, I think I can assume that they are the same person.

A slight problem with your plan, marriage certificates as we know them today did not become available til 1837, the start of civil registration.  For an 1827 marriage you will have to rely on church registers.

good luck
 

[Anna Harris]

Urgh!  Thanks Bee    I'll start digging!