Author Topic: Catherine Bishop/Robbins - help needed, please.  (Read 671 times)

Offline barmaid1971

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Catherine Bishop/Robbins - help needed, please.
« on: Sunday 01 May 16 14:25 BST (UK) »
This woman is one of my brick walls.

She was born Catherine Bishop in 1811 (or thereabouts) to Joseph Bishop and his wife, Mary in Ireland (possibly Carlow).  In 1828 she marries Marshall George Robbins in Wisbech (he was for sometime in partnership with her stepfather, Thomas Goodall, and brother, Joseph Bishop).

5 children are born to Marshall and Catherine.  Marshal G (1830); Amelia (1830ish); Joseph (1832); Catherine (1834) and Mary Ann (1836).  Catherine is not present in the family home on the 1841 Census and I cant find her on it at all but I think she must still be alive because I think she died in 1855 in Wisbech.  By 1851 it looks like the eldest son has joined the Merchant navy and three of the children (Joseph, Catherine and Mary Ann) are in the Workhouse.  I imagine there was some disharmony in the family because the partnership between Marshall and his stepfather in law was dissolved in 1836.

In 1851, when her aunt dies, she leaves Catherine the sum of 2 shillings a month until the sum of 12 has been paid.  The Aunt also leaves each of the children the sum of 19.  She is very descriptive stating that she leaves to "the children of Mrs Robbins whom she had by her husband Marshall George Robbins......" and then names them.  That is quite prescriptive and makes me wonder if there were other children by another man.

I am at a loss to know how these poor children ended up in the workhouse - particularly when their Uncle and Step Grandad were relatively successful in business and their maiden great aunts were very wealthy indeed.  I do hope that they received their 19 and it helped them to improve their sorry situation.  Where was their mother in 1841 and 1851?  Any suggestions, please?

Realistically, I guess I shall never know but it is one of those niggling things that has piqued my interest!

Plant - Suffolk, Cambridgeshire, Northamptonshire, Lincolnshire
Bothamley, Pateman, Roffe,  - Northamptonshire
Thurlby, Baker, Kilbon - Lincolnshire
Hurry, Bishop - Cambridgeshire
Pretty, Coulson - Rutland
Shaw - Nottinghamshire
De Rippe - Rutland, Middlesex, Carlow

Offline IgorStrav

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Re: Catherine Bishop/Robbins - help needed, please.
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 01 May 16 14:37 BST (UK) »
She may have been living with another man, and using his name - perhaps this man did not want to take on the children she had with Marshall Robbins?

Perhaps the aunt thought Marshall was to blame for the marriage breaking up and therefore wanted to leave some money to the suffering parties.

Are there any possible Catherines of the right age, out of county in the 1841, and born Ireland (or Carlow) in the 1851 in Wisbech if you search simply with first name?
Pay, Kent. 
Barham, Kent. 
Cork(e), Kent. 
Cooley, Kent.
Barwell, Rutland/Northants/Greenwich.
Cotterill, Derbys.
Van Steenhoven/Steenhoven/Hoven, Nord Brabant/Belgium/East London.
Kesneer Belgium/East London
Burton, East London.
Barlow, East London
Wayling, East London
Wade, Greenwich/Brightlingsea, Essex.
Thorpe, Brightlingsea, Essex

Offline trish1120

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Re: Catherine Bishop/Robbins - help needed, please.
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 01 May 16 15:13 BST (UK) »
Looks like Catherine may have been the Workhouse when she died;

Burial
CATHERINE Robbins, 20 Feb 1855, St Peter, Wisbech
Age 44
Abode Union

Childrens Baptisms;
AMELIA, 13 March 1829
JOSEPH,, 13 Dec 1831
MARSHALL GEORGE, 5 April 1830
CATHARINE, 13 Nov 1833
MARY ANN, 31 March 1835

I did notice a AMELLIA Bishop was a Witness to the 1828 Marriage.

She may have had a illeg Daug ELIZA Bishop Baptised 26 Nov 1830 Wisbech
There is also a Burial of a Eliza Bishop 16 June 1853 , abode Workhouse

Cant find Amelia or Eliza 1841/1851 Census.

Cant find Catherine either 1841/1851

Trish :)
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Cummins, Miskelly(IRELAND + NZ) ,Leggett (SFK + NFK ENGLAND + NZ),Purdy ( NBL ENGLAND + NZ ), Shaw YKS, LANCs + NZ), Holdsworth(LINCS +LANCS + NZ), Moloney, Dean, Fitzpatrick, ( County Down,IRE) Newby(NBL.ENG, Costello(IRE), Ivers, Murray(IRE),Reay(NBL.ENG) Reid (BERW.SCOTLAND)


Offline LizzieL

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Re: Catherine Bishop/Robbins - help needed, please.
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 01 May 16 16:13 BST (UK) »
there is a Catharine Robins widow 55 seamstress b Ireland in 1851, Only a visitor in the household (John Eldred 22 single journeyman cabinet maker b Walsoken) living at Canal side , Wisbech

age a bit out, but pob is right.

Berks / Oxon: Eltham, Annetts, Wiltshire (surname not county), Hawkins, Pembroke, Partridge
Dorset / Hants: Derham, Stride, Purkiss, Scott, Sibley
Yorkshire: Pottage, Carr, Blackburn, Depledge
Sussex: Goodyer, Christopher, Trevatt
Jersey: Fowler, Huelin, Scott
Essex/Herts: Livermore, Holgate, Law, Day, Myson, Boyton
Norfolk/Suffolk: Stone, Alexander, Tipple, Ingate

Offline barmaid1971

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Re: Catherine Bishop/Robbins - help needed, please.
« Reply #4 on: Sunday 01 May 16 16:42 BST (UK) »
Igor, thank you.  But I tried that.  There are no local Catherines born in Ireland.  There are lots much further away though.  Amazing how many Catherines born in Carlow there are!!!

Trish - Wow.  Thank you so much!  ;D I didnt know she had died in the workhouse.  How bizarre.  Particularly since she had money left her.  I dont suppose 12 paid at 2 shillings a month was a huge amount but it might have at least kept her out of the WH.

LizzieL - thank you.  I'll have a look - although age does seem a lot wrong.  Still who knows with that family!!!!!!

I didnt know that Amelia had witnessed her wedding.  I think Amelia was her sister (rather irritatingly, every generation for about 4 of them have children called Joseph, Elizabeth, Amelia, Catherine, Mary/Mary Ann).  Amelia DID have an illegitimate daughter called Eliza before getting married.  She married in 1843 to John Williamson and then again in 1848 to John Reeves.

I find it really bizarre how some of this family were "well to do" (Eldest sister Elizabeth married a surgeon and lived in a very grand house with carriages and servants; only brother Joseph ran two hotels in the town, was well respected and married two daughters of a wealthy local farmer (OK, so he didnt actually marry the second one, but no one seems to have batted an eyelid when she produced 5 kids for him); half sister Mary marries a "Reverend" from London and her son ends up taking up with Tussy Marx, although the less said about him, the better).  Yet two daughters from a "very well to do and ancient family" (not my description, the description in a local newspaper following a death) fall on relatively hard times and in respect of both of them their children end up in the workhouse!

Plant - Suffolk, Cambridgeshire, Northamptonshire, Lincolnshire
Bothamley, Pateman, Roffe,  - Northamptonshire
Thurlby, Baker, Kilbon - Lincolnshire
Hurry, Bishop - Cambridgeshire
Pretty, Coulson - Rutland
Shaw - Nottinghamshire
De Rippe - Rutland, Middlesex, Carlow

Offline arthurk

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Re: Catherine Bishop/Robbins - help needed, please.
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 01 May 16 17:30 BST (UK) »
I know it's not what you were asking, but in case it's of interest, my wife thinks she is distantly related to Marshall George Robbins.

We think Marshall George (Catherine's husband) was baptised in Boston in 1798, son of Marshall George and Sarah Kent. The eldest Marshall George was brother of my wife's ancestor Sabra Robbins.

Arthur
Researching among others:
Bartle, Bilton, Bingley, Campbell, Craven, Emmott, Harcourt, Hirst, Kellet(t), Kennedy,
Meaburn, Mennile/Meynell, Metcalf(e), Palliser, Robinson, Rutter, Shipley, Stow, Wilkinson

Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline barmaid1971

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Re: Catherine Bishop/Robbins - help needed, please.
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 01 May 16 18:45 BST (UK) »
That rings bells, Arthur!  I think you are right about MGR Snr.

JUst proves - only a few degrees of separation.  Amazing you can post on a website one boring Sunday afternoon and a couple of hours later someone related (albeit distantly) pops up........
Plant - Suffolk, Cambridgeshire, Northamptonshire, Lincolnshire
Bothamley, Pateman, Roffe,  - Northamptonshire
Thurlby, Baker, Kilbon - Lincolnshire
Hurry, Bishop - Cambridgeshire
Pretty, Coulson - Rutland
Shaw - Nottinghamshire
De Rippe - Rutland, Middlesex, Carlow

Offline trish1120

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Re: Catherine Bishop/Robbins - help needed, please.
« Reply #7 on: Monday 02 May 16 13:34 BST (UK) »
A very interesting Family!

Although Catherine died in the Workhouse it may have been just because she was ill.


http://www.workhouses.org.uk/life/medical.shtml

Trish :)
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Cummins, Miskelly(IRELAND + NZ) ,Leggett (SFK + NFK ENGLAND + NZ),Purdy ( NBL ENGLAND + NZ ), Shaw YKS, LANCs + NZ), Holdsworth(LINCS +LANCS + NZ), Moloney, Dean, Fitzpatrick, ( County Down,IRE) Newby(NBL.ENG, Costello(IRE), Ivers, Murray(IRE),Reay(NBL.ENG) Reid (BERW.SCOTLAND)

Offline arthurk

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Re: Catherine Bishop/Robbins - help needed, please.
« Reply #8 on: Monday 02 May 16 15:15 BST (UK) »
That rings bells, Arthur!  I think you are right about MGR Snr.

My wife has just done some more checking, and your MGR is definitely related to her. Some years ago we looked at a deed relating to the will of Julius Caesar Robbins (another brother of her ancestor), and this confirms that the MGR who was a common brewer in Wisbech was a nephew of her ancestor and JCR.

Are you actually related to the Robbins?
Researching among others:
Bartle, Bilton, Bingley, Campbell, Craven, Emmott, Harcourt, Hirst, Kellet(t), Kennedy,
Meaburn, Mennile/Meynell, Metcalf(e), Palliser, Robinson, Rutter, Shipley, Stow, Wilkinson

Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk