James Alfred & Norman Taylor

[Mancunian194]

Hi,

I'm having trouble reconciling what happened to two brothers (I presume they are twins given their birth dates). Hope someone can help!

They are the sons of Peter Taylor (b 29th April 1878 in Manchester) and Lily Mackherness (married to Peter on 24th July 1899).

One son is Norman Taylor, born in Hulme; mentioned in 1911 census as being under one month at time of census done on 2nd April 1911. I can't find a baptism record for Norman.

The other son is James Alfred born on 24th March 1911 in Hulme and baptised 5th July 1911 at Holy Trinity Church; there is a baptism record for this. James Alfred does not appear on the census.

In Peter Taylor's attestation papers on 4th Jan 1915 James Alfred is listed as a dependent  but Norman isn't, so I assume Norman has died.

So where was James Alfred at the census?
When did Norman die? (James Alfred died 1992).

It's almost like they're the same person as you never see them together!

Regards

[spendlove]

hi,

The birth of James A Taylor is recorded on FreeBMD:-

TAYLOR    James A        Chorlton    8c   846  June Q 1911

However there is no birth registered for a Norman Taylor.  Perhaps when the census was taken
2nd April they were considering calling the child Norman but changed their minds and when
registering the birth they chose James A.

Sure way to find out is to purchase the birth certificated for James, if a twin there will be an actual time of birth on his certificate.

Spendlove

[Mancunian194]

Hi,

That's a possibility I never considered but is very plausible. It fits in with what a living relative can remember - the name Norman just didn't crop up but James Alfred ('Alf') did.

Thanks

[Ladyhawk]

Can't see any other baptisms for children of Peter & Lily in Hulme, just the following

Thomas Robert Taylor born 26 Oct 1901
Baptism    5 Jan 1902 Holy Trinity Hulme
Father  Peter Taylor occ coach painter
Mother Lily Taylor, abode 8 Council Street

Rachel Taylor born 11 Oct 1902
Baptism 14 Dec 1902 Holy Trinity Hulme
Father  Peter Taylor, occ coach painter
Mother Lily Taylor, abode 77 L,Mors Lane

James Alfred Taylor born 26 Mar 1911
Baptism    5 Jul 1911 Holy Trinity Hulme
Father   Peter Taylor, occ coach painter labourer
Mother     Lily Taylor, abode 7 Essex St.

Herbert Taylor born 25 Jul 1912
Baptism 2 Oct 1912 Holy Trinity Hulme
Father Peter Taylor, occ coach painter’s labourer
Mother Lily Taylor, abode 7 Essex Street

How many children did they have by 1911?

[Ladyhawk]

Do you think it's possible that Norman Taylor had died before 1911 census and a possible mistake with the childs name was made 

There's this death entry

Norman Taylor Age at Death:   0
Jan-Feb-Mar 1909 Chorlton Volume:   8c Page:   606

[Mancunian194]

Hi,

Peter Taylor was released from Maidstone prison on 7th May 1910 into the care of the Church Army until his sentence finished on 9th November 1912. So he couldn't have had any children in 1909.

Also in the 1911 census, Lily states she had 4 children with 2 dead. The two living would be Thomas Robert and James Alfred/Norman. The two dead were Rachel and Ernest (born 1900, died 1901).