Author Topic: An Australian Passenger list query - Elizabeth Coil (Coyle)  (Read 4850 times)

Offline cando

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Re: An Australian Passenger list query.
« Reply #18 on: Tuesday 10 May 16 05:05 BST (UK) »
There doesn't appear to be a marriage between a Joseph COYLE and Cecelia CLEMENTS nee WINTERS in SA.

There is no evidence of a Daniel COYLE on the SA indexes.

Cando
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Offline cando

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Re: An Australian Passenger list query.
« Reply #19 on: Tuesday 10 May 16 05:09 BST (UK) »
But there is on TROVE in 1881 in SA - establishes there was a young Daniel COYLE in the area
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article197810789

Cando
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Offline cando

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Re: An Australian Passenger list query.
« Reply #20 on: Tuesday 10 May 16 05:24 BST (UK) »
That is all I want. We are just trying to solve a family mystery. ie The date when they left Australia and when and where they arrived in Australia. Thanks

I very much doubt you will find any record of their travel to New Zealand unless you find their arrival in that country.  They could have left from any port on the eastern seaboard.

From State Library of South Australia

Even if you have the basic details, you may still be unable to locate information since some passenger lists have not survived to present day.  Over time, a number were lost or accidentally destroyed.

Passenger lists for ships travelling between the colonies are scarce as these records were not required by immigration and remained the property of the shipping companies.  As ship travel declined, shipping companies either closed or amalgamated and their records were lost in the process.


Cando
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Offline cando

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Re: An Australian Passenger list query.
« Reply #21 on: Tuesday 10 May 16 05:26 BST (UK) »
Quote
We have the original marriage certificate.

Who were the witnesses to the marriage and who gave consent for Elizabeth to marry?

Cando
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Offline cando

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Re: An Australian Passenger list query.
« Reply #22 on: Tuesday 10 May 16 08:28 BST (UK) »
From my resources....

Birth of Elizabeth’s mother
WINTHER Cecilia
22 Nov 1867
Father Julius WINTHER  Mother Sarah FLEMING
At Port Adelaide   Ade 58/429

First marriage
CLEMENS William  28 years  Status Single  Father William CLEMENS
WINTHER Cecelia 18 years  Status Single  Father Julius WINTHER
3 Mar 1886
At the Registry Office, Adelaide  Ade 146/812

Suicide of Cecelia’s father at Glanville
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article47100637

Death of Cecelia’s mother
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article29518427

Children registered to Wm and Cecelia
Wm Henry 22 Nov 1886 at Glanville PtA 385/71
Caroline  8 Jul 1888 at Yatala  PtA 419/100
Cecilia  28 Jul 1890 at Yatala  PtA 462/132
Florence May  25 Nov 1893  Yatala PtA 532/80

Wm’s death – so he couldn’t have fathered Florence born 1893

CLEMENTS William  32 years  Status not recorded  Relative not recorded
30 Jun 1890
Residence Islington  Death Place Adelaide  Ade H 187/17
Symbol H indicates he died in a hospital or place of care.

Buried 2 Jul 1890 at Cheltenham Cemetery with dau Caroline who died in 1894.
http://www.aca.sa.gov.au/Records

Second marriage
McKAY Alexander  35 years  Status Single  Father Kenneth McKAY
CLEMENT Cecelia  31 years  Status Widow  Father Julius WINTER
11 Mar 1898
At the residence of Mrs C Clement, Rosewater  PtA 194/1016

There are children to this marriage and you can find them at
http://www.genealogysa.org.au/resources/online-databases.html

Death
McKAY Cecelia 77 years  Status Widow  Relative Alexander McKAY [Deceased husband]
5 Jan 1944
Residence Prospect  Death Place Prospect  Ade 672/98

Death notice
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article48780343

Cecelia is buried with her son at Dudley Park Cemetery.  A photo of their headstone is available on request from this website.  Please include the name of cemetery, photo and file number in your request.
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~deadsearch/dudleypark_mr.htm

Cando
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Offline forcarolyn

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Re: An Australian Passenger list query.
« Reply #23 on: Tuesday 10 May 16 10:05 BST (UK) »
I have just been reading back through the posts here and my comments etc.

Firstly I should say that I should have waited until it wasn't a busy time for me to post and then I would have been a bit more structured in my initial comment and read through my replies before hitting post.

It's the first time I have put a question on Rootschat and wasn't expecting to have so much feedback. My initial post was confusing. I was just trying to find if anyone knew how to find a passenger list that showed Sam and Elizabeth arriving back into NZ or at least leaving Australia. I confused it further by saying in a later reply  "arriving back in Australia".

I couldn't read the 'Croydon' part of the Marriage certificate and not being familiar with Australia I was looking at Queenstown, Tasmania as I knew that was where Elizabeth had lived. I have gone back to the Marriage certificate and see they were married in Hindmarsh, South Australia.

I was being cautious in what I wrote as I hadn't initially asked for permission to use Elizabeth's name and I want to respect some family information.

Elizabeth isn't the birth child of Daniel (Coil/Coyle). Nor will a birth certificate be found for her. No family member was at their wedding. It could be she ran away from her situation and I am not sure how she could have married without consent. My romantic imagination is that Samuel 'rescued' Elizabeth when he married her.

Thank you to those who have gone beyond what I imagined you would in order to assist my research and again my apologise for the confusion.

Offline cando

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Re: An Australian Passenger list query.
« Reply #24 on: Tuesday 10 May 16 10:57 BST (UK) »
Quote
Elizabeth isn't the birth child of Daniel (Coil/Coyle). Nor will a birth certificate be found for her.

The information has been transcribed from a resource which was compiled by SA Genealogy from the South Australian BDM registers.  It would be interesting to see who was the informant on the certificate.

Quote
COYLE Elizabeth Ann
16 Mar 1895
Father Joseph COYLE  Mother Cecelia (fmly) CLEMENTS (nee) WINTER
At Yatala  PtA 561/339
Cando

I wonder who was the informant on this death certificate and what was the source of Elizabeth's birth date.  There is no birth registration for an Elizabeth on 17 Mar 1896 in South Australia.  Information on death certificates only as accurate as the knowledge of the informant.

Death in NZ
1978/36390   
GREEN Elizabeth Ann    Date of birth 17 Mar 1896 82 years

Quote
I was being cautious in what I wrote as I hadn't initially asked for permission to use Elizabeth's name and I want to respect some family information.

I've only posted information that is in the public domain.  Perhaps you should express your concern to the compilers of the online public trees that I've just found which also include a photo of Elizabeth.  Similar information to mine but I would suggest they have taken the data from the subscription only websites databases.  I haven't.

Quote
I couldn't read the 'Croydon' part of the Marriage certificate and not being familiar with Australia I was looking at Queenstown, Tasmania as I knew that was where Elizabeth had lived.

Are you sure it was Queenstown, Tasmania.  The suburb of Queenstown in South Australia a few kms north west of Croydon on Port Road in Adelaide.  Rosewater where Elizabeth's mother's second marriage took place is the adjoining suburb to Queenstown. Suburbs are not large in Adelaide.  I suggest you have a look on google maps.

You state Elizabeth was married in Hindmarsh...that is not correct she was married at the Residence of W T Brooker at Croydon.  Hindmarsh is the Registration District which covers the suburb of Croydon and adjacent suburbs.  The South Australian 1909 electoral roll has a Mr William BROOKER of Princes Street, Croydon.  Occupation Grocer.

Cando

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Offline majm

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Re: An Australian Passenger list query.
« Reply #25 on: Wednesday 11 May 16 01:22 BST (UK) »
Quote
We have the original marriage certificate.

Who were the witnesses to the marriage and who gave consent for Elizabeth to marry?

Cando

Hi there,

I seem to have missed the response to this excellent question.    I can assure you that any person, in that era,  under the age of 21 years would have needed an adult to provide consent, and the clergyman should have recorded those details on the record sent through to the Civil Registry Office.   I can also assure you that quite often the witnesses to a marriage were family members, or extended family members, and perhaps the witnesses should be followed up.   

....
Marriage in South Australia
GREEN Sam  32 years  Status Single  Father Samuel GREEN
COIL Elizabeth Ann 16 years  Status Single  Father Daniel COIL
22 Oct 1910
Residence of W C Brooker, Croydon   Hin S 245/233

Several of the RChatters who have replied on this thread are very experienced in helping with South Australian research and they are offering you quality information.    I am NSW centric and I was of the understanding that you were referring to Tasmania.   

Sometimes Mr Google is a help when looking at locations, so for example, entering Queenstown, Australia will find at least two locations "Queenstown" .... the one in Tasmania and the one in South Australia.

Cheers,  JM



 
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Offline cando

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Re: An Australian Passenger list query.
« Reply #26 on: Wednesday 11 May 16 02:13 BST (UK) »
The place of death for Elizabeth's mother's 2nd husband

McKAY Alexander  Status not recorded  44 years  Relative not recorded
17 Sep 1904
Residence Dry Creek    Death Place Queenstown  PtA 304/457

South Australian Electoral Roll
1909 Division Port Adelaide/Sub division Grand Juncion
McKAY Cecelia   Yatala Plains Widow

I suggest you view a map of the area to see how close these suburbs are to each other.

The Mt Lyell Mining Co started searching for copper at Queenstown, Tasmania in 1892 and the Post Office opened in 1896 so I am wondering what a young girl would be doing living in this remote area of Tasmania in this era.

One needs to approach family history research with an open mind and seek validation of family stories.

Cando



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