Author Topic: An Australian Passenger list query - Elizabeth Coil (Coyle)  (Read 4864 times)

Offline majm

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Re: An Australian Passenger list query - Elizabeth Coil (Coyle)
« Reply #36 on: Tuesday 17 May 16 00:52 BST (UK) »
Hi there,

I am becoming confused.   Using the quality research in the replies, I can join the dots from the birth in South Australia, the marriage in South Australia, through to the death in New Zealand for Elizabeth.   I am confused as to where the conflicts are, as I don't see any significant ones along that line.   Yes, there's differences in the spelling of her surname.   However, that is not at all unusual.

If I were searching for an Elizabeth COIL in South Australia, I would not doubt a birth registered as Elizabeth daughter of Joseph COYLE, nor would I be concerned about a confusion between Daniel and Joseph, particularly if Elizabeth's dad may not have been around when she was growing up.     
 
Perhaps in 1910 the Reverend did not ask her how to spell her surname, perhaps she had not been given the opportunity to check the parish register where the Reverend recorded it.  Afterall, the Reverend would have interviewed the couple in the weeks before the ceremony.   He would have been required to ask for proof that an adult, responsible for Elizabeth, was providing consent for her marriage.  The index clearly notes that she was aged 16.   Perhaps she was not a great speller herself.   

The marriage laws, both church and civil, required her to be 21 years of age before she could give her own consent to her own marriage, unless she had been previously married, (and therefore became qualified to give her own consent, regardless of her age).   If this was a marriage in New South Wales, then I would comment "NSW marriage act required the consent for a marriage where either or both were not yet 21 years of age.  The clergy recorded this on the original parish register in the 'white space' near where the pre-printed words are "according to the rites of" and the clergy records the particulars of those rites, AND then should write down "Written consent for Elizabeth, a minor, was given to this marriage by ..................., (both given and surname), .............. of the bride (father/mother/guardian/ etc as in their relationship to the bride).     Many clergy may have written "Consent for ...... rather than "Written consent for ....."  But NSW Marriage Act required consent to be noted.   

I do not know South Australia's Marriage Act at that time, but I am most surprised that it would seem that consent was not recorded on your copy of the marriage certificate.   I am wondering if you are holding the ceremonial document presented to the bride at the time of the marriage, rather than the actual civil registration of the marriage.  It is my understanding that South Australian BDM certificates hold scant information, so I am not suggesting you spend funds on ordering a new set of records.  Simply put, I find it unusual that a marriage certificate for a 16 year old lass does not note who gave consent for her to marry.

Whether her father was Daniel or Joseph or Daniel Joseph or Joseph Daniel, or COIL or COYLE or other variations seems much less significant to me.   You see, to me, COIL or COYLE are simply variations which are more likely due to the recorder's literacy levels rather than the Bride's literacy levels.    The information was informant driven.  In that era, the clergy were significant members of the community.

I am not sure where the 'gaps' are, except that like most of us, you would like to record the name of the ship that carried Elizabeth to New Zealand.    I am very doubtful if you will achieve this goal.   Within most of the family history groups based in Australia I am quite sure that none would expect to achieve that goal with complete certainty simply because New Zealand and each of the six colonies that federated in 1901 to form Australia were all still British Colonies, in an era before passports.  The paperwork that the shipping companies did create often did not note the given names of their passengers, nor even the gender of any children.   So, it is unlikely to find Elizabeth travelling as Mrs Elizabeth GREEN.  Perhaps they were recorded as Mr and Mrs S GREEN and child/ren or Mr and Mrs GREEN + infant.   Perhaps they purchased their tickets in the hour before the ship departed, when the clerks were perhaps at their own busiest time of the voyage.  But basically, the requirement for paperwork with 'full details' was not a high priority for the shipping companies or for the  governments of either NZ or any of the states of Australia.  In 1910, they needed to know that the fares had been paid for, the passengers were on the correct deck for the fare paid.  It was simply a short voyage between British colonies, with no foreign ports in between.

All speculation, but basically I am not spotting any gaps/conflicts, and I am one who has taken a lot of criticism over many years for being 'too strict' some would say that I am far far far too "pedantic".

Cheers,   JM 
 


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Offline forcarolyn

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Re: An Australian Passenger list query - Elizabeth Coil (Coyle)
« Reply #37 on: Tuesday 17 May 16 02:19 BST (UK) »
My apologise. When I said gaps/conflicts, I was talking about in my own thinking not in the information you have given. You have all filled in many gaps.

When I started this post this relationship was new to me and my first thought was to see if I could find the shipping records bringng them to NZ after the marriage. That as you say may be unlikely as the information just isn't there.

What I discounted, was not what you had found but my own first reaction when I found Elizabeth's birth register information prior to placing the initial query here re the shipping information.

The research information on here once again brought up this birth register and of course all the other information. I had to take time to look at all of this and then take questions back to my original source of this new relative. This person gave additional information that confirmed what I was reading here.

In my mind, and nothing to do with your finds, are the gaps - no birth or death register for either Daniel or Joseph. The misinformation on some of the registers, were they accidental, deliberate. i have other questions but there is noone left on this earth that can answer them.

I appreciate all that you have all contributed. Your expertise and experience. Thank you.



 

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Offline Rachel McHobo

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Re: An Australian Passenger list query - Elizabeth Coil (Coyle)
« Reply #38 on: Saturday 04 March 17 07:24 GMT (UK) »
I'm hoping that you will receive notification of my reply!

Sam and Elizabeth are my great grandparents.  Their daughter Ethel was my Grandmother, her daughter Elizabeth is my mother.

I have plenty of information about Sam Green once he arrived in NZ, Mum recently found where he was buried.  He died estranged from his family, and was buried in an unmarked grave in Bromley Cemetery CHCH, NZ.

I remember My great grandmother, even though she died when I was very young.

I found this post because I'm trying to find out information about my great grandmother (Elizabeth Coyle/Coil) especially her family. We know nothing about her life in Australia before she came to NZ. She would not talk about it at all.  We think that is because her father must have been indigenous.  Unless Cecila was, though there is no evidence of this so far.  It might explain why Cecila never was married to Daniel/Joseph Coyle/Coil.  There is a Joseph Coyle who fits the timeline who was imprisioned at Rottnest island, then moved to Moore river settlement.  Though I can't make the connection to Yatala in SA.  I'm so very interested in what you know about her father.  I live in Australia now and desperately want to fill in the blanks, perhaps even travel to SA to search for answers.

I hope you find this post!
Rachel

Offline forcarolyn

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Re: An Australian Passenger list query - Elizabeth Coil (Coyle)
« Reply #39 on: Wednesday 08 March 17 09:00 GMT (UK) »
Hi Rachel, Just wonderng if you received my email reply?

Offline Rachel McHobo

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Re: An Australian Passenger list query - Elizabeth Coil (Coyle)
« Reply #40 on: Wednesday 08 March 17 10:17 GMT (UK) »
Just found it!! I've replied 😊

Offline Ren71

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Re: An Australian Passenger list query - Elizabeth Coil (Coyle)
« Reply #41 on: Friday 11 January 19 09:49 GMT (UK) »
Hi All,

Bit slow to start but my Husband and I are researching his family tree and Elizabeth Coil/ Coyle and Sam Green are his great Grandparents.

You have no idea how thrilled we were to find this thread as we were coming up with nothing much at all and really would like to know find out more from this side of his family tree.

We see there are a few people researching and looking for information and wondered if any of you could get in touch to help fill in the gaps for us.

Any help would be much appreciated

Thank you in advance :)

Offline Jamjar

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Re: An Australian Passenger list query - Elizabeth Coil (Coyle)
« Reply #42 on: Friday 11 January 19 10:38 GMT (UK) »
Welcome to Rootschat.

Looks like you have some ancestral connections to be made here.  ;D

Hopefully, those on this thread still have active email notifications that will let them know someone has posted here.

Jamjar
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