Author Topic: An Australian Passenger list query - Elizabeth Coil (Coyle)  (Read 4851 times)

Offline forcarolyn

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Re: An Australian Passenger list query.
« Reply #9 on: Tuesday 10 May 16 00:10 BST (UK) »
Sam (Samuel) left NZ on his own prior to Oct 1910. Went to Australia. Met Elizabeth Coil (Coyle) and married October 1910. They then as a couple/family came back to NZ after the wedding. A child was born to them in 1911 here in NZ (there may have been a child born before they returned here). Trying to find their passenger list back to NZ after they married. We have the original marriage certificate. The spelling for Elizabeth is COIL but there are no COIL in Tasmania at this time or at anytime but there was the spelling COYLE. Their marriage is not listed online anywhere that we can find but the certificate proves the marriage.

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Offline wivenhoe

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Re: An Australian Passenger list query.
« Reply #10 on: Tuesday 10 May 16 00:16 BST (UK) »
Can you please scan the marriage certificate and post it here. If that is not possible can you please list all the information on the certificate. You need to include all the details.

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Offline sparrett

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Re: An Australian Passenger list query.
« Reply #11 on: Tuesday 10 May 16 00:18 BST (UK) »
Thanks for making it clearer.

Finding the shipping records may be a challenge as not all records for all voyages exist.
Sorry not to be more helpful.

Sue

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Online majm

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Re: An Australian Passenger list query.
« Reply #12 on: Tuesday 10 May 16 01:35 BST (UK) »
Hi there,

Travel between New Zealand and any of the states in Australia in the years immediately before WWI can be difficult to track, simply because it was movement  between British colonies in the era before ordinary folk needed to carry any form of identification.   Passports were not issued to ordinary folk in Britain until 1914.   So, in the same way that a person could move between any of the states of Australia without needing to carry identity documents, so too could that person move between any of those states and New Zealand.  We should also remember that the Australian constitution actually allowed for New Zealand to be one of the founding states, while Western Australia was the colony that was initially the most hesitant to be in the federation.

Both Papers Past and Trove are extremely useful in following passenger movements across the Tasman, but you need to remember that the info in the newspapers is based on verbal advice given to the shipping lines at time of boarding/purchasing passage.   Mr and Mrs  Abc + x children  MAY be the extent of the shipping line's info at the time. And as others have mentioned, not all shipping lines provided copy of all their manifests to the newspapers (and not all newspapers found room to publish those lists).

 http://www.justice.tas.gov.au/bdm/family_history "Please Note:  The Tasmanian Registry does not have an online search facility to access birth, death and marriage records. "

Here's the link to Papers Past (NZ digitised papers) 
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast
and
Here's the link to Trove (Australian digitised papers)
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/

Even when there are lists in the newspapers, you may find that your research will not 'join the dots'.  I explain.  I have family who were born NSW, and who moved back and forth to Auckland, NZ many times during the decade before WWI.  I have the family's private papers, giving me all the details.  But when I attempt to validate the trips, even knowing the date and name of the ship, it is not possible.  Sometimes I read Mr and Mrs Abc and infant journey to NZ, but the return journey does NOT include the infant. So you need to be careful with the research and flexible with the interpretation.

Cheers,  JM
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Offline forcarolyn

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Re: An Australian Passenger list query.
« Reply #13 on: Tuesday 10 May 16 04:21 BST (UK) »
Thank you Sue. i appreciate the trouble people go to, reply with or without info.

JM............Thank you or your explanation. I have been doing family research for many years now and we have about 8,000 on our extended family tree but this unknown sibling of my g  grandfather suddenly appeared in the form of a grandchild and so it has been interesting to put some dots together and make connections.

I have spent many hours on Papers Past over the years since this was brought online and love this resource. No luck so far. I have sent a short time on Trove over the past couple of weeks but will go back there and Family Search etc. from time to time.

I really appreciate your taking the time to reply and the WW1 explanation plus the lack of need for ID makes sense. So thank you again.
carolyn

Offline wivenhoe

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Re: An Australian Passenger list query.
« Reply #14 on: Tuesday 10 May 16 04:22 BST (UK) »
You are identifying the place of marriage as Australia. I might have expected you to be more specific.....the state, the town. Is it a marriage certificate that you have, or something like.......statutory declaration etc and just stating "Australia"?.

Offline cando

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Re: An Australian Passenger list query.
« Reply #15 on: Tuesday 10 May 16 04:45 BST (UK) »
I fail to understand why the OP couldn't at least give the correct state in Australia where the couple married.  At least it now gives us a place to start searching for outgoing passengers now we know where they married.

Quote
Relative was a NZ'er married a girl in Tasmania and then brought her back to NZ

Marriage in South Australia
GREEN Sam  32 years  Status Single  Father Samuel GREEN
COIL Elizabeth Ann 16 years  Status Single  Father Daniel COIL
22 Oct 1910
Residence of W C Brooker, Croydon   Hin S 245/233

S. The certificate contains information which may not be published such as:
   Groom or Brides father is deceased
   The Mothers name is stated
   The age is listed in years and months
   A subsequent divorce is listed
   Other unusual information is listed

Cando

Edit to add Symbol S explanation
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Online majm

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Re: An Australian Passenger list query.
« Reply #16 on: Tuesday 10 May 16 04:49 BST (UK) »
...... We have the original marriage certificate. The spelling for Elizabeth is COIL but there are no COIL in Tasmania at this time or at anytime but there was the spelling COYLE. Their marriage is not listed online anywhere that we can find but the certificate proves the marriage.

May I please ask what is the significance of Tasmania as it is not the state for that 1910 marriage ? 



Cheers,  JM
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Offline cando

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Re: An Australian Passenger list query.
« Reply #17 on: Tuesday 10 May 16 04:59 BST (UK) »
And yes the father's name is not a match with the marriage registration however there are few COYLE births in South Australia and this is the only Joseph and no Daniel.

COYLE Elizabeth Ann
16 Mar 1895
Father Joseph COYLE  Mother Cecelia (fmly) CLEMENTS (nee) WINTER
At Yatala  PtA 561/339
 
And a half sister

CLEMENTS Cecelia
28 Jul 1890
Father William CLEMENTS  Mother Cecelia WINTER
At Yatala   PtA 462/132

Cando

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