Author Topic: COMPLETED Looking to confirm a death  (Read 1479 times)

Offline dublin1850

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COMPLETED Looking to confirm a death
« on: Tuesday 17 May 16 16:35 BST (UK) »
My great grandfather Patrick Loughman married my great grandmother in Ireland in 1905.
On his marriage cert. he is described as a widower. This came as a surprise to us as he was only 28.

I went looking for a marriage elsewhere and found one to a Lydia Olsen (b. 1870 Sweden, father Peter ____, mother Mary Olsen) in Manhattan on 29th August 1894. Her address is listed as 239 WI 66 (this 'could' be West 66th).

My great grandfather was Patrick Loughman (b. 1872 Queen's County, Ireland, father Stephen Loughman, mother Kate McKeon). He was listed as resident in Pelham Manor, NY, which is where two of his sisters and some brothers had gone to earlier.

The next mention of him is on the Irish census of 1901 where he is listed as 'not married' - of course it's possible he never mentioned his adventures in NY to his father who filled out the census form - none of his family were witnesses at the NY wedding, which is odd as a number of them were in NY at the time.

I am looking for a death record for Lydia (Olsen) Loughman, to confirm she was indeed deceased when he married again. It is possible she sometimes used the first name Lizzie.

In the absence of a nationwide database, I suppose I'm looking at New York, New Jersey, Connecticut and maybe even Rhode Island. Can anyone help?

Coffey, Cummins, Cummins [Skirke, Laois], Curran, Dillon [Clare], Fogarty [Garran, Laois/Tipp], Hughes, Keshan (Keeshan), Loughman [Killadooley, Laois], Mallon [Armagh], Malone, Markham [Caherkine, Clare], McKeon(e) [Sligo/Kilkenny/Waterford], McNamara, Meagher, Prescott [Kilkenny/Waterford/Wexford?], Rafferty, Ryan, Sullivan, Tobin
GEDMatch: T665306 tested with Family Tree DNA
GEDCOM file: 1980344

Offline Lisa in California

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Re: Looking to confirm a death
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 17 May 16 19:59 BST (UK) »
Is there a chance that Patrick returned home for a visit and returned to New York in 1896?

Germanic sailed from Queenstown, Ireland and arrived 8 May 1896 New York, New York
Patk Loughman, age 24 (born c1872), Irish.  Married.  Occupation: Labr. Could read and write.  Intended destination: New York, New York.

If that was your Mr. Loughman, he was still married as of May 1896.

May I ask, please, why you think Lydia might have been known as Lizzie?
Ellison: Co. Wicklow/Canada       Fowley: Sligo/Canada       Furnival: Lancashire/Canada       Ibbotson: Sheffield/Canada       Lee/DeJongh: Lancashire & Cheshire       Mumford: Essex/Canada       Ovens: Ireland/Canada       Sarge: Yorkshire/Canada       Stuart: Sligo/Canada       Sullivan: Co. Clare/Canada      Vaus: Sussex/Surrey      Wakefield: Tuam or Ballinasloe, Ireland       (Surname: Originated/Place Last Lived)  (Canadians lived in Ontario)

Offline dublin1850

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Re: Looking to confirm a death
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 17 May 16 20:48 BST (UK) »
Hi Lisa
Thanks for your reply.
Yes, there is every chance he was back and forth - a number of the family seem to have travelled a lot.

I believe Lydia may have also used Lizzie because on another passenger list, there is (travelling with Patrick's sister, Mary Ann) a 'Lizzie Olsen' on the Teutonic, April 6th 1892. Their 'where from' details are a bit mixed up, but I believe they may have been travelling together.

My theory (which may be way off) is that Mary Ann made the acquaintance of Lydia/Lizzie in New York and brought her back on a visit home. Patrick may have already met her in New York. I don't know, it's kind of a mystery that has come out of the blue.

Do you know is there an overall index of deaths for the US? I'm due a trip over to New York soon and would have no problem trawling through a physical index looking for her death.
Coffey, Cummins, Cummins [Skirke, Laois], Curran, Dillon [Clare], Fogarty [Garran, Laois/Tipp], Hughes, Keshan (Keeshan), Loughman [Killadooley, Laois], Mallon [Armagh], Malone, Markham [Caherkine, Clare], McKeon(e) [Sligo/Kilkenny/Waterford], McNamara, Meagher, Prescott [Kilkenny/Waterford/Wexford?], Rafferty, Ryan, Sullivan, Tobin
GEDMatch: T665306 tested with Family Tree DNA
GEDCOM file: 1980344


Offline Lisa in California

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Re: Looking to confirm a death
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 17 May 16 21:14 BST (UK) »
Being Canadian and living in California, unfortunately, my knowledge of east coast records is very limited.

I've used the following sites when researching:
Newspapers from 1836 to 1922
http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/#tab=tab_advanced_search

Newpapers, including New York newpapers
http://fultonhistory.com/Fulton.html

Some NY Deaths
http://italiangen.org/records-search/deaths.php

I don't believe there is any American general index of deaths.  I have not yet found her death, using one of the "pay sites" nor after a brief search using the above sites.

Have you seen this record before?
UK Incoming passenger list
Teutonic sailed from New York, arrived Queenstown, Ireland on 27 October 1891
Mary Loughman, age 23, Single, Servt, Irish
Lizzie Olson, age 21, Single, Servt, "Foreigner" (not English, Irish nor Scotch)
Ellison: Co. Wicklow/Canada       Fowley: Sligo/Canada       Furnival: Lancashire/Canada       Ibbotson: Sheffield/Canada       Lee/DeJongh: Lancashire & Cheshire       Mumford: Essex/Canada       Ovens: Ireland/Canada       Sarge: Yorkshire/Canada       Stuart: Sligo/Canada       Sullivan: Co. Clare/Canada      Vaus: Sussex/Surrey      Wakefield: Tuam or Ballinasloe, Ireland       (Surname: Originated/Place Last Lived)  (Canadians lived in Ontario)

Offline dublin1850

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Re: Looking to confirm a death
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 17 May 16 21:46 BST (UK) »
No, I hadn't seen that, thank you very much.

They must have been doing pretty well with all their back and forthing across the Atlantic.
Coffey, Cummins, Cummins [Skirke, Laois], Curran, Dillon [Clare], Fogarty [Garran, Laois/Tipp], Hughes, Keshan (Keeshan), Loughman [Killadooley, Laois], Mallon [Armagh], Malone, Markham [Caherkine, Clare], McKeon(e) [Sligo/Kilkenny/Waterford], McNamara, Meagher, Prescott [Kilkenny/Waterford/Wexford?], Rafferty, Ryan, Sullivan, Tobin
GEDMatch: T665306 tested with Family Tree DNA
GEDCOM file: 1980344

Offline Genealiza

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Re: Looking to confirm a death
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 18 May 16 02:39 BST (UK) »
There is a Lydia Loughman listed in the Surrogate Records Index in 1895: estate inventory in Pelham, Westchester, NY.

http://recordcenter.westchestergov.com/SurrogatesSearchResult.aspx

There is a link on how to order the records.
http://archives.westchestergov.com/order-a-record

Offline dublin1850

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Re: Looking to confirm a death
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 18 May 16 08:51 BST (UK) »
Those pages aren't responding just at the moment, but I will try them again later.
Thank you so much for that. She must have died very young. How sad, though without her death, he would not have married my greatgrandmother and many extraordinary people would not have existed.
At least it shows he wasn't a bounder who ran out on someone. Thank you all again.
Coffey, Cummins, Cummins [Skirke, Laois], Curran, Dillon [Clare], Fogarty [Garran, Laois/Tipp], Hughes, Keshan (Keeshan), Loughman [Killadooley, Laois], Mallon [Armagh], Malone, Markham [Caherkine, Clare], McKeon(e) [Sligo/Kilkenny/Waterford], McNamara, Meagher, Prescott [Kilkenny/Waterford/Wexford?], Rafferty, Ryan, Sullivan, Tobin
GEDMatch: T665306 tested with Family Tree DNA
GEDCOM file: 1980344

Offline shellyesq

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Re: COMPLETED Looking to confirm a death
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 18 May 16 12:02 BST (UK) »
I found letters of administration for the estate of Lydia, but the surname was transcribed as Laughman.  There's not much detail.  It says that Patrick was her surviving husband, she died intestate (without a will), and was late of the town of Pelham.  The date of the record was 17 Apr. 1895.

If you would like to get an exact date of death, there is a library that will do free look-ups in the New York state death index as explained here - http://www.unyg.com/blog/index.php/2008/03/new-york-state-vital-records-microfiche-indexes-update/  I have used them before, and they usually respond within a week or so.  The library's website has changed since that blog post (it's now here - http://www.onlib.org/web/lh/contact.htm), but their e-mail is the same.

Offline dublin1850

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Re: COMPLETED Looking to confirm a death
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 18 May 16 12:07 BST (UK) »
Thank you again. People have been very kind. I will contact them.
Coffey, Cummins, Cummins [Skirke, Laois], Curran, Dillon [Clare], Fogarty [Garran, Laois/Tipp], Hughes, Keshan (Keeshan), Loughman [Killadooley, Laois], Mallon [Armagh], Malone, Markham [Caherkine, Clare], McKeon(e) [Sligo/Kilkenny/Waterford], McNamara, Meagher, Prescott [Kilkenny/Waterford/Wexford?], Rafferty, Ryan, Sullivan, Tobin
GEDMatch: T665306 tested with Family Tree DNA
GEDCOM file: 1980344