John Banton and wife Catherine

[mazi]

Just to fill in a bit, James is in the 1871 in Grimsby as a fisherman, with wife Martha and Elizabeth.

James is said to be born Manchester, Martha born London, Elizabeth born Manchester, registered on freebmd under Martha's maiden name.

I do not know if the OP has the marriage certificate.

I cannot find a suitable James in 1841, 1851, or 1861 but I only have Familysearch to go on.

Mike

[Annie65115]

in 1851 the family is at 36 Scholes St, Manchester

William Banton, head, m, age 41, carter - rail
Ellen Banton, m, age 41
Joseph age 20 Porter - rail
Beshel daughter unma age 17  Weaver Power Cotton
Stephen son age 14 scholar
James son age 8 scholar  (all above born Manchester)
John Hughes lodger unmarried age 20 (?) Piecer cotton, b Wales, Mold

IN fact I am not sure if they were all born in Manchester, as some of the children were baptised elsewhere:

Baptism: 3 Aug 1834 St Luke, Heywood, Lancashire, England
Jane Banton - Daughter of William Banton & Ellen
    Abode: Bamford
    Occupation: Engineer
    Baptised by: Rt. Minnitt
    Register: Baptisms 1833 - 1844, Page 30, Entry 232
    Source: Original Register

Baptism: 29 Mar 1835 St Luke, Heywood, Lancashire, England
Bersheba Banton - Daughter of William Banton & Ellen
    Abode: Heap
    Occupation: Engineer
    Baptised by: R. M
    Register: Baptisms 1833 - 1844, Page 55, Entry 431
    Source: Original Register

Baptism: 6 Aug 1837 St Luke, Heywood, Lancashire, England
Levinia Banton - Daughter of Wm. Banton & Ellen
    Born: 18 Dec 1836
    Abode: Gooden Lane
    Occupation: Engineer
    Baptised by: Robt. Minnitt
    Register: Baptisms 1833 - 1844, Page 169, Entry 1341
    Source: Original Register

Baptism: 14 Jan 1844 St Andrew, Ancoats, Lancashire, England
James Banton - [Child] of William Banton & Ellen
    Abode: London Road
    Occupation: Labourer
    Notes: P.
    Baptised by: St. Cranmer
    Register: Baptisms 1831 - 1848, Page 117, Entry 932
    Source: LDS Film 559149

Baptism: 13 Aug 1846 St Simon and St Jude, Manchester, Lancashire, England
Mary Banton - Daughter of William Banton & Ellen
    Born: 21 Jul 1846
    Abode: Scholes's [sic] Street
    Occupation: Labourer
    Baptised by: John Bywater
    Register: Baptisms 1842 - 1849, Page 47, Entry 374
    Source: LDS Family Search

[Mabel Bagshawe]

That William and Ellen appear tobe the righ family, as the witnesses to James & Martha's wedding are samuel and "Liviner" Cutcheon. Samuel marries lavinia Banton (b Heywood) in 1859 and later they are also in Clee

[mazi]

Looking good, but there is a huge age difference between this James and the one in Grimsby.

Mike

[Annie65115]

Now maybe I'm confused, but in 1871 the James in Grimsby is apparently aged 37 - so born 10 years before the James in the William/Martha household.

Do we need clarification of James's age before looking any further?


ETA: James and Martha's marriage cert is available online.
It confirms James's age as 24 (in 1868); occupation seaman; father William Banton, porter.

Possibly James isn't in the 1861 census because he was at sea.

[Mabel Bagshawe]

Could be a mistake on the 1871 census, although the image is 37. Being exactly 10 years out suggests a mistranscription

[Brutushedge]

Thanks to you all so far. I will add what I know, or at least think I know.

James and Martha were indeed in Grimsby in 1871. James died at sea in 1874, and I have crew documents from Maritime Archives in Newfoundland. The ship was taking on crew in Grimsby, although registered in Newcastle. I have found throughout my searches with him that his age differs considerably. Whether this was transcription errors, him making up his age, or just common mistakes I don't know.

The information on the 1851 census you mention is certainly what I have believed to be true about the family, with James and William present. Thanks annie65115 for the baptism details.

Only this evening I have found some more information about William Banton, James' father and the son of John? and Catherine? William is listed as witness at the 2 marriages of his daughter Bathsheba: 2 August 1857 to John Simpson, in Ancoats St. Andrew's, and again on 7 December 1873, when the widowed Bathsheba Simpson marries Thomas Jarvis. On both certificates William is listed as William Clement or Clemence Banton. This is the first time I have seen this middle name used, but the evidence seems convincing.

So far, I have only found a William Clement BANTAN, born 1805 in Bentham, North Yorkshire. Parents William Bantan and Catherine Pearson, married 1796. Other children are Joseph, Betty, Mary and Agatha. William Banton declares on the 1851 census that he was born in Manchester, so this doesn't fit. However, if the children were declared born in Manchester and then not, is this William Clement a possible?

Thanks again to you all for all the expert work so far. I'm sure William (Clement/Clemence) Banton's siblings and parents are out there somewhere.

[Brutushedge]

Oh, and just to clear things a little more if it helps, James and Martha Banton's daughter was Edith, not Elizabeth. I have her birth certificate and have posted yet another question on the Lancashire board about her birth at Hough's Buildings in Newton. If in doubt, turn to the Rootschat people!