Jane Holyland marriage to Thomas Wilson - SNEINTON

[Thooperfly]

Kerenhappuck seems to have had a sister, Selina, who is buried in the same plot.

There is another little Gee, Alice Mabel, who was b and d the following year (1893) in the same street (Palmerston St) - I wonder if she was another family member?

The older children (Harry, James, Mary Ann) plus Selina (and Alice, if she's from the same family) were all registered as Gee. Kerrenhappuck was the first to be registered as Holyland but was buried as K. Holyland Gee. And in fact the 1891 census names Fulshaw first, or course, then Elizebeth Gee then the children as "ditto" - which should refer to Gee, not Holyland.

It's possible of course that these older children were not Fulshaw's.

This is going off topic so I'm going to take this back to the Leic board!

Thank you very much for your help Penny. This has been an interesting journey, if a bit of a sad one when you think about how life was for them back then.

John.

[Thooperfly]

I wonder if people back then commited bigamy by saying their were widdowers? I know from a few newspaper reports of the period - both Fulshaw and Jane were in the courts for petty things.



John.

Hi John,

Yes people did commit bigamy by saying their were widdowers back then my own 3rd great Aunt did say she was a widow on her second marriage, her first husband was in Portland Prison for try to kill her. Also was not always truthful about their ages too.

I'll get the copy for you next time I'm in the archives there is no cost as there is a machine where I can save it to my memory stick and then attach it to an email for you.

NG

Cheers NG. I guess the lack of money made divorce very rare - it seems to be certainly the case with my Mum's family in the later 1800's. As for the violence aspect of things, that seems to be present too. For all I know, Jane went off to Nottingham because she felt threatened - I have a newspaper article in 1867 where she was assaulted by her husbands family. It all ended up in court.

John.

[Thooperfly]

Hi John,

I've been into the archives this morning marriage details are:
St Matthias Church Sneinton 11 Feb 1884:
Thomas Wilson aged 38yrs a widower, a Bricklayer of Carlton Road, father John Wilson deceased, FWK
Jane Holyland, aged 37yrs, a widow, a Machinist of Carlton Road, father James Norman deceased, Farm Labourer.
Both Thomas and Jane both signed.
Witnesses were Robert & Elizabeth Knight both put an x.

If you what a copy I can get that for you next time I'm in the archives but wont be for a couple of weeks as going away for a few days next week.

NG

Hi NG,

Finally I ordered this certificate, as I wanted to add this as a source to my tree. It confirms all the info you mentioned and in particular it is interesting that Jane's father James Norman is the right name and he had the right occupation as farm labourer (he is recorded as deceased on the certificate).

In the 1901 census I have a Jane Wilson, born in Leicestershire in 1843 (both correspond with Jane's birth details - she was born Jane Norman) living in the Nottingham Borough Asylum. I have her as dying the following year.

The odd thing is that I can't find her as Jane Holyland in the 1881 census at all. She was living with Fulshaw Holyland in Leicester in the 1871 census with her son Simeon Norman Holyland (Fulshaw adopted Simeon Norman - Simeon is my 2nd Grt Grandfather). The marriage on the 1884 certificate is the next date I have for her. She obviously abandoned her son Simeon with Fulshaw.

Then after that no entry for a Thomas and Jane Wilson in the 1891 census. I'm guessing they stayed in Nottingham.

Getting a bit baffling.

John.

[nottsgirl1]

Hi John,

I'm so sorry I was meant to get you that copy of the marriage wasn't I but have been really very busy and not been to the archives much and forgot all about it I'm so sorry.

I cannot find them on the census either but there is a Thomas Wilson of Carlton Road buried at St Catherine's Church Yard on 7 March 1885 but the only thing is his age is down as 45yrs as on his marriage in 1884 he's 38yrs a difference of 6 years for a death in 1885, but sometimes ages are wrong on deaths.

The Jane Wilson who died in 1902 was buried in the General Cemetery Nottingham on 16 July 1902 so when I'm next in the archives I can look that up and see who she is buried with if any family may be some clues there.

NG

[Thooperfly]

Hi John,

I'm so sorry I was meant to get you that copy of the marriage wasn't I but have been really very busy and not been to the archives much and forgot all about it I'm so sorry.

I cannot find them on the census either but there is a Thomas Wilson of Carlton Road buried at St Catherine's Church Yard on 7 March 1885 but the only thing is his age is down as 45yrs as on his marriage in 1884 he's 38yrs a difference of 6 years for a death in 1885, but sometimes ages are wrong on deaths.

The Jane Wilson who died in 1902 was buried in the General Cemetery Nottingham on 16 July 1902 so when I'm next in the archives I can look that up and see who she is buried with if any family may be some clues there.

NG

No worries NG. I understand life gets busy. I have two young children and also give English lessons at home (both in person and on the phone). So sometimes I can stuggle to keep up with things.

Thanks for the additional info - I hadn't been able to find a death date for Thomas, but I think either one or the other lied about their age (or they were recorded wrongly). Jane was down as being 37 on their marriage certificate, but I have her as being born in 1844 as mentioned on the 1851 & 1871 censuses.
I think these discreptencies must be why I'm struggling to find info about them.

Between 1871 and 1884, Jane left Leicester leaving her son Simeon with his adoptive Father Fulshaw Holyland. Ironically her son died in 1902 in Leicester. Apparently from a heart attack. I often wonder if they saw each other after she left Leicester for Nottingham.

Cheers,

John.

[Thooperfly]

Went to the Leicestershire records office last month. I wasn't able to find anything about Jane Norman on their archives database, nor Jane Holyland.
They have free access to Find My Past there. My searches on that just turned up the same info I have already. So I'm assuming that sometime in the 1870's she left Leicester and ended up in Nottingham. I guess bigamy was quite common then...

John.

[Thooperfly]

A year on, this is the current info I have for Jane Holyland (Nee Norman) later Wilson.

Birth
1844 • Mountsorrel, Leicestershire, England

Birth of Sister Charlotte Norman (1846–1932)
July 1846 • St Margarets, Leicester, Leicestershire, England

Birth of Brother James Norman(1851–)
April 1851 • St Margaret, Leicester, Leicestershire, England

Residence
1851 • 7, Luke Street, Saint Margaret, Leicestershire, England
Relationship: Daughter

Death of Father James Norman(1803–1859)
1859 • Leicestershire, England

Birth of Son Simeon Norman Holyland(1860–1902)
1860 • Barrow Upon Soar Workhouse, Leicestershire, England

Residence
1861 • Barrow Upon Soar Union Workhouse, Rothley, Leicestershire, England
Relationship: Pauper Inmate

Marriage
October 1863 • Leicester, Leicestershire
Fulshaw Holyland
(1843–1919)

Death of Mother Frances Holyland or Holiland(1811–1864)
October 1864 • Leicester, Leicestershire, England

Newspaper Article
1867 • Leicester, Leicestershire, England.
Family squabbles (Article needs adding).

Residence
1871 • Benford Street, St Margaret, Leicestershire, England
Relationship: Wife

Death of Brother John Norman(1832–1883)
22 Apr 1883 • Knighton, Leicestershire, England

NORMAN HOLYLAND WILSON Jane Marriage Nottingham
Marriage
11 February 1884 • Saint Matthias Church, Sneinton, Nottinghamshire, England
Thomas Wilson
(1846–1885)

NORMAN HOLYLAND WILSON Jane Marriage Nottingham
Residence
1884 • Carlton Road, Nottingham, Nottinghamshire, England
1 Media
1884

NORMAN HOLYLAND WILSON Jane Marriage Nottingham
Occupation
1884 • Nottingham, Nottinghamshire, England
Machinist

Newspaper Article
2 April 1885 • Nottingham, Nottinghamshire, England
Thomas Wilson was in court "again" for aggravated assault on Jane. They'd both been drinking (qué sorpresa!!). I can't find the result of that trial. It appears they probably lived on Carlton Rd. Source: Penny Bradbury.

Death of Husband Thomas Wilson(1846–1885)
1885 • Nottingham, Nottinghamshire, England

Newspaper Article
Feb 1886 • Nottingham, Nottinghamshire, England.
Feb 1886 - Jane Wilson convicted for fighting in Woolaton St (don't know which Jane though). Source: Penny Bradbury.

Newspaper Article
Dec 1891 • 2 Manvers Street, Nottingham, Nottinghamshire, England
Convicted of theft from a boarding house at 2, Manvers St, where she'd been lodging. Until the previous month she'd been a housekeeper to John Gould of 14 Lavender St. (John is in the 1891 census at this address but no housekeeper). Source: P. Bradbury.

Newspaper Article
Aug 1895 • Nottingham, Nottinghamshire, England.
Aug 1895 - Jane Wilson, a married woman of 6, Malin Hill, convicted of assault whilst in a pub. Source : Penny Bradbury.

Admission to Nottingham Asylum
2 December 1898 • Nottingham Borough Asylum, Nottinghamshire, England


Residence
1901 • Nottingham Borough Asylum, Nottinghamshire, England
Relation to Head: Patient

Death
13 Jul 1902 • Nottingham Borough Asylum, Nottinghamshire, England
Burial
16 July 1902 • General, Cemetery, Nottingham, Nottinghamshire, England

I have a couple of other newspaper articles to add to this, when I can find them.
Jane is my 3rd Great Grandma. If any one has her in their tree then I'd love to hear from you.
Her parents were from the Barsby / Ashby Folville area. Unusually, Frances her mother, had the maiden name Holiland or Holyland - the same surname as Jane's first husband Fulshaw Holyland.


Thanks

John.