Author Topic: Where is C Hill, Victoria please  (Read 2115 times)

Offline Forfarian

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Re: Where is C Hill, Victoria please
« Reply #27 on: Wednesday 13 March 19 08:52 GMT (UK) »
Thank you, Sue, I will bear that in mind.

(Rhetorical question) Why on earth did they make that change?
Researching

AITKENHEAD, Lanarkshire; BINNY, Forfar; BLACK, New Monkland; BRYSON, Cumbernauld; BURGESS, North-East Scotland; CRUICKSHANK, Rothes; DALLAS, Botriphnie; DAVIDSON, Oyne; GUTHRIE, Angus; HOGG, Larbert; LESLIE, Rothes/Mortlach; MENDUM, England; MOLLISON, Lethnot; PATERSON, Larbert; RHIND, Forfar; SANG, Scotland; SCOTT, East Kilbride; STOR(R)I/E/Y, Shotts; THORNTON, Shotts; WADDELL, New Monkland; WILKIE, New Monkland; WILKIE, Tannadice; WYLLIE, Angus; YOUNG, Keith

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Offline wivenhoe

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Re: Where is C Hill, Victoria please
« Reply #28 on: Wednesday 13 March 19 09:18 GMT (UK) »

In the Will....is the place name very clearly "Ballarat"?

It is a distinctive place name but you might expect it to be "Ballarat, Victoria" or "Ballarat, Australia".


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Offline Forfarian

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Re: Where is C Hill, Victoria please
« Reply #29 on: Wednesday 13 March 19 11:08 GMT (UK) »
It's a typed will and the exact wording is, "To my son William Burgess, baker in Ballarat, Australia, whom failing by his predeceasing me to his children equally among them share and share alike, one fourth ..." The will is dated 28 September 1905 but George did not die until 14 August 1922.

However I cannot assume that any children actually existed in 1905 because George left to his son John, who did have children (nine of them, plus one who died in infancy) by the time George made his will, one fourth of one fourth, the remaining three fourths of one fourth to go to John's children.

So I wonder if the wording of the will was to provide for William's children as yet unborn.

He also left a bequest to his son George Jr in exactly the same terms as to William. I know George Jr was still unmarried in 1901, but I have no idea what became of him after that.

So I still have no evidence that definitely links William Burgess, baker in Ballarat in 1905, to William Burgess, who died in Yarra Bend Hospital in 1908.

BTW the fourth fourth went to his half-sister's daughter - just in case anyone is wondering. I know I would have been :)
Researching

AITKENHEAD, Lanarkshire; BINNY, Forfar; BLACK, New Monkland; BRYSON, Cumbernauld; BURGESS, North-East Scotland; CRUICKSHANK, Rothes; DALLAS, Botriphnie; DAVIDSON, Oyne; GUTHRIE, Angus; HOGG, Larbert; LESLIE, Rothes/Mortlach; MENDUM, England; MOLLISON, Lethnot; PATERSON, Larbert; RHIND, Forfar; SANG, Scotland; SCOTT, East Kilbride; STOR(R)I/E/Y, Shotts; THORNTON, Shotts; WADDELL, New Monkland; WILKIE, New Monkland; WILKIE, Tannadice; WYLLIE, Angus; YOUNG, Keith

Offline wivenhoe

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Re: Where is C Hill, Victoria please
« Reply #30 on: Thursday 14 March 19 05:55 GMT (UK) »
"..28 September 1905 but George did not die until 14 August 1922. "

How old is George BURGESS when he made out a Will, 1905?

Why did he draw up a Will in 1905, several years before he died?

Was there a change in the circumstances of George BURGESS, or his beneficiaries, that might have caused George to draw up a Will?

Did George BURGESS die suddenly in 1922, or from chronic illness?

What did  estate of George BURGESS consist of........money / property / personal items?....what would son William BURGESS inherit?

Is there a death notice in the newspaper for death of George BURGESS, 1922?

What is the last sighting you have of son William BURGESS, before he is named as baker, Ballarat at 1905?

Do you see him on a Census?

Offline jaybelnz

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Re: Where is C Hill, Victoria please
« Reply #31 on: Thursday 14 March 19 06:43 GMT (UK) »
I have a book named "The Church on Bakery Hill", first published just last year. It's about St Paul's Ballarat and it's place in the community! 

Because of the book's title, and the name Burgess that  you post, I got the book out and had a quick look.  I found a man named "The Reverend Leslie Burgess" whose photo and also one with his wife, is also in the book! They had 5 children!

I just wondered if this Leslie Burgess was a relative of your's, and the fact that the area is called Bakery Hill, and you're looking for a baker, suggests to me that it could be a possibility!  Anyway, I keep looking through the book, and I'll see if I can come up with any more! 

I'm very lucky to have this book, it was kindly sent to me by the Melbourne Author Anne Doggett, an Australian who had written the book "A History of the Anglican Church in Melbourne",  one or two of my Potter Irish relative's had come to Ballarat, all Anglican Clergymen!  I was able to provide her  with a lot of information about my Potters, and she kindly sent me a copy of the book!!

So I'm happy to check through the book again, more carefully, and if I find any more references to a Burgess Family, I'll let you know!
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Offline Forfarian

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Re: Where is C Hill, Victoria please
« Reply #32 on: Thursday 14 March 19 07:57 GMT (UK) »
"..28 September 1905 but George did not die until 14 August 1922. "

How old is George BURGESS when he made out a Will, 1905?
67

Quote
Why did he draw up a Will in 1905, several years before he died?
Presumably, at the age of 67, he thought it was prudent to do so.

Quote
Was there a change in the circumstances of George BURGESS, or his beneficiaries, that might have caused George to draw up a Will?
Not as far as I know. He must have retired at some point, but in 1911 he is still described a marine engineer, steam drifter, aged 70, which suggests that he had not retired by then.

Quote
Did George BURGESS die suddenly in 1922, or from chronic illness?
Cause of death was cerebral haemorrhage, so it was sudden, but he was was 84, so it could not have been unexpected.

Quote
What did  estate of George BURGESS consist of........money / property / personal items?....what would son William BURGESS inherit?
Money and personal items, but no property.

Quote
Is there a death notice in the newspaper for death of George BURGESS, 1922?
I doubt it. I have certainly not found one.

Quote
What is the last sighting you have of son William BURGESS, before he is named as baker, Ballarat at 1905?
1881 census, as an apprentice baker in Aberdeen. I could of course have missed him in 1891 or 1901, and I have not found a record of him travelling to Australia.

Quote
Do you see him on a Census?
I see William in 1871 and 1881. I see George Sr in 1841, 1851, 1861, 1871, 1881 and 1911, but have not found him in 1891 or 1901. He may have been at sea, of course.
Researching

AITKENHEAD, Lanarkshire; BINNY, Forfar; BLACK, New Monkland; BRYSON, Cumbernauld; BURGESS, North-East Scotland; CRUICKSHANK, Rothes; DALLAS, Botriphnie; DAVIDSON, Oyne; GUTHRIE, Angus; HOGG, Larbert; LESLIE, Rothes/Mortlach; MENDUM, England; MOLLISON, Lethnot; PATERSON, Larbert; RHIND, Forfar; SANG, Scotland; SCOTT, East Kilbride; STOR(R)I/E/Y, Shotts; THORNTON, Shotts; WADDELL, New Monkland; WILKIE, New Monkland; WILKIE, Tannadice; WYLLIE, Angus; YOUNG, Keith

Offline Forfarian

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Re: Where is C Hill, Victoria please
« Reply #33 on: Thursday 14 March 19 08:16 GMT (UK) »
I found a man named "The Reverend Leslie Burgess" whose photo and also one with his wife, is also in the book!
Thank you, that is very interesting.

George Sr's half-brother's wife was Jane Leslie, but I have accounted for all of her descendants who would have been old enough to be this Rev Leslie Burgess, and I cannot fit him in. There was a Leslie Burgess, born in 1871, but he died in infancy.

So I looked in Trove and found this in The Argus of 27 December 1944, "On December 25, at Ballarat, Miriam Ann, beloved wife of the late Lambert Burgess, loving mother of Rev Leslie Burgess (Ballarat) and Eric (Traralgon), aged 75 years". There are no Lamberts, no Miriams and no Erics in my Burgess tree. I did take a look at the VIC BDM index, and it seems that Lambert died in 1943, parents George Burgess and unknown Hested. The surname Hested is not recorded in any of the databases at Scotland's People, from which I conclude that it does not occur in Scotland. All my direct ancestors were born, brought up, brought up their families and died in Scotland. (Two couples broke the mould by getting married in England, but spent the remainder of their lives in Scotland.) So I am confident that the Rev Leslie Burgess is not related to me, or to William Burgess the baker in Ballarat.
Researching

AITKENHEAD, Lanarkshire; BINNY, Forfar; BLACK, New Monkland; BRYSON, Cumbernauld; BURGESS, North-East Scotland; CRUICKSHANK, Rothes; DALLAS, Botriphnie; DAVIDSON, Oyne; GUTHRIE, Angus; HOGG, Larbert; LESLIE, Rothes/Mortlach; MENDUM, England; MOLLISON, Lethnot; PATERSON, Larbert; RHIND, Forfar; SANG, Scotland; SCOTT, East Kilbride; STOR(R)I/E/Y, Shotts; THORNTON, Shotts; WADDELL, New Monkland; WILKIE, New Monkland; WILKIE, Tannadice; WYLLIE, Angus; YOUNG, Keith

Offline wivenhoe

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Re: Where is C Hill, Victoria please
« Reply #34 on: Thursday 14 March 19 09:25 GMT (UK) »
Is this your William, back from the colonies?

Peterhead Sentinel and General Advertiser for Buchan District   31 Mar 1906

William BURGESS......has opened that shop, so long advertised as a bakery establishment, at 20 Albion Street.....W. B. who has had a long  experience in Colonial Bakery Establishments........

Offline Forfarian

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Re: Where is C Hill, Victoria please
« Reply #35 on: Thursday 14 March 19 13:52 GMT (UK) »
Strewth! It could indeed be him. Thank you for that. I am gobsmacked.

Researching

AITKENHEAD, Lanarkshire; BINNY, Forfar; BLACK, New Monkland; BRYSON, Cumbernauld; BURGESS, North-East Scotland; CRUICKSHANK, Rothes; DALLAS, Botriphnie; DAVIDSON, Oyne; GUTHRIE, Angus; HOGG, Larbert; LESLIE, Rothes/Mortlach; MENDUM, England; MOLLISON, Lethnot; PATERSON, Larbert; RHIND, Forfar; SANG, Scotland; SCOTT, East Kilbride; STOR(R)I/E/Y, Shotts; THORNTON, Shotts; WADDELL, New Monkland; WILKIE, New Monkland; WILKIE, Tannadice; WYLLIE, Angus; YOUNG, Keith