Author Topic: Andrew Smith Watchmaker of Tranent  (Read 3841 times)

Offline isobelw

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Re: Andrew Smith Watchmaker of Tranent
« Reply #9 on: Sunday 10 July 16 00:24 BST (UK) »
Marriage cert. also shows Christian Kent to be alive and evidence indicates she died in 1851 so fact Andrew Snr is not shown as deceased may not be proof that he was still alive in 1860. He could certainly have died between 1851 and 1855 as Monica says and death may not therefore be recorded.
Isobel
Clotworthy, McMahon, Saunderson, Culley (Ireland & Scotland)
Weatherall, Greer (Ireland & Scotland)
Hamilton, Johnston, Dawson, Rennie, Wright (Clackmannanshire)

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Offline tidybooks

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Re: Andrew Smith Watchmaker of Tranent
« Reply #10 on: Sunday 10 July 16 00:39 BST (UK) »
Hi Isobel,

Yes, you are correct, that could be the case. I had another look at the certificate and I note that the bride's father is marked as deceased, so it could be an omission by registrar.

However, the omission could be on Christian Kents only, Andrew Smith could still be alive. He may have went to stay with one of his kids or emigrated, he was still a young man when he was widowed.

I note the tree on Ancestry ran by a Denise, has put his death before 1861, so she never found a confirmed date either.

Tom
Scotland - Buchanan, Thomson, Pat(t)erson, Stewart, Ritchie, Tracey
Ireland - Tracey, Conroy, Pat(t)erson.

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Offline zumaro

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Re: Andrew Smith Watchmaker of Tranent
« Reply #11 on: Sunday 10 July 16 07:38 BST (UK) »
Thanks everyone for all the work while I was asleep!

Tom - I would never had thought of looking at The Scotsman archives, and yet there is an obituary notice for Christian Kent. Like many of my family members I am named after her, so I guess I have a special interest in finding out more about her. 

Andrew Smith Sr is definitely Andrew Smith Jr's father, and it is his will and death notice in 1857. I originally thought I had Andrew Jr's death notice too, until I noticed the age (which agreed very well with the birth date I already had for him). So more family history filled in but not the elusive Andrew Sr.

Monica - I am related to Andrew Smith Jr Jr who ends up in Peebles, and our family has quite a bit to go on with working out things from him on (including photos of his wife Helen, although not of him alas). I too am confused by the marriage certificate, that notates John Bertram to be deceased, but not Christian Smith, who most definitely is dead by that stage.  So it seems to be an unreliable source of information for once, which is strange for a family of accountants and watchmakers not to be totally meticulous!

The Jane Smith link is maybe promising - two of her brothers seem to be in Edinburgh at the same time too. Trouble is unless she uses her more unusual middle name (which she never seems to again) it is so hard to verify a Jane Smith! Thomas Swanston and Charles Kent seem to literally use their middle names as part of their family name for the rest of their lives, which makes tracking them down much easier...

That being said the findagrave reference is magnificent thanks - it filled in lots of details about Thomas Swanston and his family.  I never expected to see that - my searching is obviously not up to scratch! Even now I am not sure how you found it!

So thanks again - still not closer to finding Andrew Smith Jr, but lots of useful things to me so far. I am very grateful for everyones time and energy.

Smith: East Lothian, Scotland
Mack: Berwick, Scotland
Moody: Yorkshire, England
Smeeton: Leicester, England
Sullivan: Kerry, Ireland

Offline tidybooks

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Re: Andrew Smith Watchmaker of Tranent
« Reply #12 on: Sunday 10 July 16 09:55 BST (UK) »
Hi Zumaro,

Good morning to you, I think I have found 4 of the family in the 1871 census, all living together in Edinburgh. There are some things which are incorrect, but think maybe JaneAlston Smith is the housekeeper.

4 Panmure Place, Edinburgh 1871 Census

Head -     Charles Robert? Smith -age 28 born 1843  Greenock?, E Lothian - Clerk
Brother -  Robert B? Smith         -age 25 born 1846  France?,  E Lothian - Clerk
Brother -  Alexander N ? Smith   -age 22 born 1849  France?, E Lothian - Asst Grocer
Sister -    Jone(sic) A Smith        -age 31 born 1840  France?, E Lothian  - housekeeper

Some  placename and middle name errors, but first names and year of births fit in. No father with them, which is why I was looking for them.

Tom
Scotland - Buchanan, Thomson, Pat(t)erson, Stewart, Ritchie, Tracey
Ireland - Tracey, Conroy, Pat(t)erson.

Offline tidybooks

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Re: Andrew Smith Watchmaker of Tranent
« Reply #13 on: Sunday 10 July 16 11:51 BST (UK) »
Hi Zumaro,

I think you have got Thomas and Charles in 1861 census, but will post here for others behalf.

3 YoungStreet, Edinburgh  1861 census

Lodger  - Thomas Smith   - age 22 born 1839 Tranent, Haddingtonshire   - Stationary Clerk
Visitor   - Charles Smith   - age 19 born 1842 Tranent, Haddingtonshire   - Journeyman Baker

Tom
Scotland - Buchanan, Thomson, Pat(t)erson, Stewart, Ritchie, Tracey
Ireland - Tracey, Conroy, Pat(t)erson.

Online MonicaL

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Re: Andrew Smith Watchmaker of Tranent
« Reply #14 on: Sunday 10 July 16 17:24 BST (UK) »
Tom, that 1871 census entry that you have found looks really promising. Well done for finding  :) Hopefully the original image will help confirm the details.

If that is all of the children except for Andrew Jnr and Thomas, then they all survived up to then. In particular Robert and Alexander.

So it is still Jane, Robert and Alexander that need to be traced but likely now, from 1871 onwards...

Monica
Census information Crown Copyright, www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Online MonicaL

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Re: Andrew Smith Watchmaker of Tranent
« Reply #15 on: Sunday 10 July 16 18:02 BST (UK) »
This does not help at all in determining where the missing are, but...

Could this needlepoint at auction http://needleprint.blogspot.co.uk/2010/05/bright-day-at-brightwells-leominister.html be 'the' Jane Elston Smith from Tranent I wonder:

www.brightwells.com/Portals/7/catalogues/AE190510/lot0707-0.jpg

Also included is this note:

Stitched in silk and chenille this unfaded sampler with a half-timbered cottage, bears the thistle of Scotland and rose of England and was prabably stitched in 1884. It is Lot 707 in the sale and has an estimate of 150 - 200.




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Offline zumaro

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Re: Andrew Smith Watchmaker of Tranent
« Reply #16 on: Sunday 10 July 16 18:05 BST (UK) »
Tom - brilliant work! I just downloaded the original image from Scotlandspeople, and it is absolutely them. The transcription in ancestry.com is only vaguely close, and the original is in actual fact easy to read (even without knowing what you want to see!).
I read the following
Charles Kent Smith - Head - unm - 28 - Clerk - E Lothian Tranent
Robert B Smith - Brother - " - 25 - Student in Arts - do do
Alexander N Smith - do - " 22 - Assistant Grocer - do do
Jane A Smith - Sister - " - 31 - Housekeeper - do do

Thomas Swanston is easy to trace, even if we don't know where he is in 1871, as he marries Elizabeth McNiven in 1872, and the findagrave entry fills out his death details - 1914 in Willesden, England. And Andrew is in Peebles with his wife and family.

If it is any use I always suspect that Alexander is Alexander Nimmo Smith for reasons that escape me, as I have no other confirmation of N as his middle initial beyond this listing.

Andrew Smith remains totally elusive - I am beginning to suspect that he is dead and gone by 1855. However I checked out a few OPR entries in Scotlandspeople of Andrew Smiths who died in Edinburgh from 1851 to 1854 and still see nothing. The trouble is you can't search on age in these old records, and it gets very expensive to check out every possibility in Scotland. Any other ideas where we might search?
Smith: East Lothian, Scotland
Mack: Berwick, Scotland
Moody: Yorkshire, England
Smeeton: Leicester, England
Sullivan: Kerry, Ireland

Offline zumaro

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Re: Andrew Smith Watchmaker of Tranent
« Reply #17 on: Sunday 10 July 16 18:13 BST (UK) »
Monica - that needlepoint took my breath away.  That is absolutely Jane Alston Smith's work. Look at the initials around the edge:
AS Andrew Smith
CK Christian Kent
AS Andrew Smith
TSS Thomas Swanston Smith
CKS Charles Kent Smith
RBS Robert B Smith  (no idea what the B is for, but that is what the 1871 census says)
ANS Alexander N Smith (N for Nimmo?)

How did you find it!!
Smith: East Lothian, Scotland
Mack: Berwick, Scotland
Moody: Yorkshire, England
Smeeton: Leicester, England
Sullivan: Kerry, Ireland