William Arthur Pay Lived in SA from 1880-1998 and from 1901-1902

[rosie99]

Thank you for looking   

Could this be her death
Deaths Sep qtr 1924   
Ada E Maling    age    79   
Bedford RD    3b   269

Edith Ada Garner (nee Maling) and her husband Thomas Frederick Garner are living at 1 Canning Street, Bedford around this time 

[rosie99]

The only proof I have that WA Pay was in South Africa for 20 years was a letter from his brother Alfred in the LLoyds Weekly that he was looking for his mother Mrs Maling, his sisters Ada and Florence and his brother Arthur, a mining engineer, who was in SA for 20 years and last wrote from Prince Edward Gold fields. This as during the Boer War.

That request appeared in Lloyd's Weekly Newspaper 04 July 1897 and states his mother lived in Cornwall Road, Notting Hill 8 years ago.  It also says his brother joined the Mounted Police in S. Africa about either 15 or 18 years ago (copy is poor)

[IgorStrav]

Thank you for looking   

Could this be her death
Deaths Sep qtr 1924   
Ada E Maling    age    79   
Bedford RD    3b   269

Edith Ada Garner (nee Maling) and her husband Thomas Frederick Garner are living at 1 Canning Street, Bedford around this time 

Excellent - just as I was hypothesising! 

Re the mysterious William James Pay

- I've had not much success (not surprisingly) trying to find more members of Mary Smith Pay's family, including her brother William James Smith, and sisters.
- Given Robin says that WJP is a barman in the birth certs, perhaps a search in local streets round about where Ada Emily was living in the census might turn him up


 

[rosie99]

I have tried searching the 1871 census for London/ Surrey / Middlesex  first name William occupation Barman - No results.  I doubt he was a Licensed victualler as they would have been living on the premises.

[IgorStrav]

Have been thinking this through again.

What about the hypothesis that the father of Ada Pay's children 'William James' was unable to marry her, because - perhaps - he was already married.

So she registers the children correctly under her own unmarried name of Pay, but 'legitimises' them by suggesting that her own name is Smith, her mother's maiden name.

This would explain why she then marries subsequently under her name Pay, but makes up her father's name as George Smith to match everything else.

So as you suggest, Rosie, we are looking for a William James who is a barman in the right sort of area for the births.

[rosie99]

What is the source of the photo of WJP, do you have the original as that could help date it. 

It would be nice to know what you think about our research on Ada.

[IgorStrav]

Don't think I mentioned for Robin the birth ref for Ada Emily Pay, which matches the 1871 and 1881 censuses which he has:

PAY, ADA  EMILY   MMN SMITH    GRO Reference: 1844  D Quarter in THE HOLBORN UNION  Volume 02  Page 144

[genealogiepay]

Attached are the birth certificate of WA Pay and the letter in the Lloyds Weekly from 1901.

Can you send the other letter from 1897 to genealogiepayATgmail.com, pls?

Obviously Arthur and Alfred met-up in USA and travelled together to Surinam.
Actually Alfred got banned from Surinam as he smuggled a small piece of gold in a newspaper (source: Surinam newspaper, in Dutch).

[IgorStrav]

Hi Robin

Yes, we've seen the birth certificate (I posted the details earlier on this thread).
And as a member of Ancestry I was also able to see the snip from the Lloyds Weekly, which is attached to a public tree.

However, Rosie and I have been working on WILLIAM JAMES PAY and ADA EMILY

If you look at reply #19 on this thread, you will see the Census record that Rosie found, which links to the birth reference I found, and matches the census details you have already found for the family.

May I recommend that you read through this whole thread - I appreciate it is complicated.

We have seen all the birth details you have already posted and looked them up.


However I don't know what you mean about the other letter from 1897?