Author Topic: Meaning of word "ap" on baptism record  (Read 1042 times)

Offline johnmac123

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Meaning of word "ap" on baptism record
« on: Tuesday 02 August 16 23:36 BST (UK) »
Does anyone know the meaning of the word "ap" on a baptism record written in latin?

e.g. the following is for a baptism record for an Edward Lewis

Edwardi filius Edwardi ap Robert Lewis & Sara ap Hugh ap Evan.

Thanks



Offline Chilternbirder

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Re: Meaning of word "ap" on baptism record
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 02 August 16 23:45 BST (UK) »
Looks like a mix of Latin and Welsh. "ap" simply indicates a patronym.
I have also seen it written as "up" on a Monmouthshire toombstone.

In the examples the parent's names have been written with their Welsh patronyms but the Latin filius has been used to indicate the relationship to the child being baptised.
Crabb from Laurencekirk / Fordoun and Scurry from mid Essex

Offline Greensleeves

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Re: Meaning of word "ap" on baptism record
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 02 August 16 23:48 BST (UK) »
In Welsh, 'ap' refers to 'son of' so ap in this context would mean:
.....  Edward son of Robert Lewis & ...

It goes on to say ....   Sara  ap Hugh ap Evan which means 'son of Hugh son of Evan' but if Sara is female it should be  'ferch (daughter of) Hugh ap Evan'.
Suffolk: Pearl(e),  Garnham, Southgate, Blo(o)mfield,Grimwood/Grimwade,Josselyn/Gosling
Durham/Yorkshire: Sedgwick/Sidgwick, Shadforth
Ireland: Davis
Norway: Torreson/Torsen/Torrison
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Online youngtug

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Re: Meaning of word "ap" on baptism record
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 02 August 16 23:53 BST (UK) »
I think Sara is the wife of Robert, he is the son of Hugh
.http://www.rootschat.com/links/05q2/   
  WILSON;-Wiltshire.
 SOUL;-Gloucestershire.
 SANSUM;-Berkshire-Wiltshire
 BASSON-BASTON;- Berkshire,- Oxfordshire.
 BRIDGES;- Wiltshire.
 DOWDESWELL;-Wiltshire,Gloucestershire
 JORDAN;- Berkshire.
 COX;- Berkshire.
 GOUDY;- Suffolk.
 CHATFIELD;-Sussex-- London
 MORGAN;-Blaenavon-Abersychan
 FISHER;- Berkshire.
 BLOMFIELD-BLOOMFIELD-BLUMFIELD;-Suffolk.
DOVE. Essex-London
YOUNG-Berkshire
ARDEN.
PINEGAR-COLLIER-HUGHES-JEFFERIES-HUNT-MOSS-FRY


Offline Andrew Tarr

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Re: Meaning of word "ap" on baptism record
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 03 August 16 11:54 BST (UK) »
The use of 'ap' in Welsh to show paternity goes back a long way, predating the use of surnames.  With time 'ap' got stuck to some forenames, leading to Welsh 'surnames' as Penry, Price, Powell and Probert.  I guess Bevan and Bowen derived in the same way.  That could only happen with names starting with a vowel or a soft consonant: not with ap Tomos or ap Gwilym.
Tarr, Tydeman, Liversidge, Bartlett, Young

Offline johnmac123

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Re: Meaning of word "ap" on baptism record
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 03 August 16 13:06 BST (UK) »
Thanks everyone, that will help take my family research further back  :)

Offline Chilternbirder

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Re: Meaning of word "ap" on baptism record
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 03 August 16 13:11 BST (UK) »
Considering the use of English spellings for Hugh / Huw and Evan / Efan I suspect that the person filling in the register may simply have asked the lady for her father's name and wrote "ap" by mistake.

Crabb from Laurencekirk / Fordoun and Scurry from mid Essex

Offline ScouseBoy

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Re: Meaning of word "ap" on baptism record
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 03 August 16 13:40 BST (UK) »
Does anyone know the meaning of the word "ap" on a baptism record written in latin?

e.g. the following is for a baptism record for an Edward Lewis

Edwardi filius Edwardi ap Robert Lewis & Sara ap Hugh ap Evan.

Thanks
What year was this please?
Nursall   ~    Buckinghamshire
Avies ~   Norwich

Offline johnmac123

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Re: Meaning of word "ap" on baptism record
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 03 August 16 14:01 BST (UK) »
It was 10 Apr 1671 in Llanasa, Edvardus Lewis, it's on the Findmypast website.