Author Topic: Whatever happened to little Jackie Baldwin ?  (Read 3096 times)

Offline Pipeclay

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Re: Whatever happened to little Jackie Baldwin ?
« Reply #27 on: Monday 08 August 16 09:35 BST (UK) »
There is also Bruce A Baldwin,  whose birth was registered on 5 or 6  November 1905,   at St Leonards NSW,  with parents George R and Maude Baldwin.

And the WW2 nominal roll contains Bruce Arthur Baldwin,   who enlisted on 11 August 1942 at Normanton Queensland,     and was purported born according to the army on 5 November 1905 at Hornsby NSW.   His next of kin was L Baldwin and he was discharged in 1944.

There is a registered death in Queensland,   C2377 in 1976,  Bruce Arthur Baldwin,  parents George Richard Baldwin and Maud Mail.    He would have been 71,  if it is the same person.

If these 3 entries relate to the same person,  it is interesting that he told the army he was born at Hornsby,  although his birth was registered at St Leonards NSW.

Pipeclay,  I realise you are new to RChat, and I expect you are a long standing family history buff.  May I please suggest that there is simply no reason to write "purportedly" or any other adverse words.   Those words may well be considered by 21st century eyes as suggesting that the named person has been less than truthful when lodging the paperwork.  As you are relying on online indexes to make those assumptions, surely it would be sensible to re-phrase rather than to let any inappropriate inference stand.   I mention this particularly as your enquiry involves seeking someone who may well have younger living siblings.   Afterall, the NSW BDM online index does NOT display birth registrations for births where that birth occurred less than 100 years ago.

JM

Well I can see what you are trying to say.  I am more familiar with the WW1 records than the WW2.   I have looked at thousands of them.   The point I would say,  is the recruiting officer is going to write down what the recruit says,  and not demand proof,  and only in a tiny fraction of cases where the proposed recruit's age is suspect,  they are too young,  too old,  or require parental consent,   did the Army seek to officially verify the recruit's age.

Case in point,  when John Edward Baldwin enlisted in Queensland,  he didn't say he was born at St Leonards or Chatswood or Hornsby or Wahroonga or Kuringgai.   He just said Sydney.   Which is easier than spelling some complicated name with which the Queensland recruiting sergeant would not be familiar.    Where as, if he had enlisted in the Sydney,  the recruiting sergeant may well have been more inquisitive.

That is often the case where people enlisted interstate.  I have people born at Caulfield, Melbourne, and their birth certifcate says they were born there,  and when they enlisted in Perth,  they just said "Melbourne".    Even worse,  is when they confuse places like Richmond or Carlton or Burwood which appear in more than one state.
 
The army recruitment record is not an official record of the applicants birth date or age.  It is what he or she told them,  and they rarely check,   and in thousands of cases,  recruits have been inaccurate about their age for one reason or the other.

Usage of qualifying words and phrases such as "purportedly" merely reflects this level of doubt in the accuracy and assurance of various sources,  particular when they appear to be potentially inconsistent.   You should not overthink it.





Offline Jamjar

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Re: Whatever happened to little Jackie Baldwin ?
« Reply #28 on: Monday 08 August 16 09:40 BST (UK) »
Funeral notice for John with parents Mr and MRS George. So either he remarried, or Jacks mother was never deceased.

Fifth column:

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01i5o/
Atkinson; Badier; Cameron; Grant; Howie; Jardine; Jenkins; Kerr; Lawardorn; Lee; Linton; Lonie; McConnell; Morgan; Morrison; Murphy; O'Leary; Paton; Pratt; Robb; Williams

Offline Pipeclay

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Re: Whatever happened to little Jackie Baldwin ?
« Reply #29 on: Monday 08 August 16 09:40 BST (UK) »
"As you are relying on online indexes to make those assumptions, "

I am not "assuming" anything.   

My principal source is actually newspapers,   and while newspapers have their own accuracy issues,   I am satisfied that the online newspaper sources are no less legible than the paper or microfilm versions.


Offline sparrett

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Re: Whatever happened to little Jackie Baldwin ?
« Reply #30 on: Monday 08 August 16 09:42 BST (UK) »

A birth notice. Upon reading will offer further support through locality.

http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/16593126

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Offline sparrett

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Re: Whatever happened to little Jackie Baldwin ?
« Reply #31 on: Monday 08 August 16 09:49 BST (UK) »
The possible death of Alice (nee MAIL)
EDIT- or maybe not ;D

BALDWIN  Alice Maud M 
27779/1952
Aged 74 Yrs
Mother Mary
At PADDINGTON

Sue
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Offline Pipeclay

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Re: Whatever happened to little Jackie Baldwin ?
« Reply #32 on: Monday 08 August 16 09:53 BST (UK) »
Funeral notice for John with parents Mr and MRS George. So either he remarried, or Jacks mother was never deceased.

Fifth column:

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01i5o/

That would be the normal interpretation, I entirely agree.    However there is no shortage of examples of such announcements appearing where one parent is already deceased.  His mother ( or as you say,  possible step-mother ) is not named there.   I see no reason why the friends of his mother or maternal relatives would be excluded from the invite.

If his father was deceased,  and not his mother,  you'd be more likely to see "Mrs George R. Baldwin",  or "Mrs Maud Baldwin"  inviting friends and relatives to the funeral.  You see plenty of both.

It would be quite strange indeed for such an announcement to appear where BOTH parents were already deceased.  Particular when the announcement from his wife is right there next to it.

Without having pursued every single rabbit down every single burrow,  at the time I made that post,  I am quite satisfied with my circumspect "it would appear that at least one of his parents was still living",  or whatever I actually said.


Offline Jamjar

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Re: Whatever happened to little Jackie Baldwin ?
« Reply #33 on: Monday 08 August 16 10:12 BST (UK) »
Your pompous attitude begs belief, so I will have one final comment and leave the others to deal with your enquiry.

The woman who died in Yarrawonga, was Eleanor Baldwin, so you may like to see how she fits in with the family connections you think you have made.

Jamjar

Added: As the good researchers on this site would say, to prove your connection, get yourself a transcription of a certificate or two.
Atkinson; Badier; Cameron; Grant; Howie; Jardine; Jenkins; Kerr; Lawardorn; Lee; Linton; Lonie; McConnell; Morgan; Morrison; Murphy; O'Leary; Paton; Pratt; Robb; Williams

Offline Pipeclay

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Re: Whatever happened to little Jackie Baldwin ?
« Reply #34 on: Monday 08 August 16 10:14 BST (UK) »
There is also the 1944 marriage of John Edward Baldwin to Eleanor May Marshall.

Which could potentially explain why his wife appears to be Miriam at the start of the War, "Elanor" at the end of the War,  and "May" in 1949.

That's a couple more certificates I would need to obtain,   if I was actually that interested.

First I will go through that military file again,  very closely,  to see if there is any substitution of Elanor for Miriam, as his next-of-kin, at any point during the War.   

It is also possible that the "Elanor" in the file index and the nominal roll is entirely a red herring,  being actually Miriam misread by someone.   The name Miriam appears at least five times on different pages in that file,   and at least 2 of those are not very legibly written.





Offline Pipeclay

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Re: Whatever happened to little Jackie Baldwin ?
« Reply #35 on: Monday 08 August 16 10:25 BST (UK) »

The woman who died in Yarrawonga, was Eleanor Baldwin, so you may like to see how she fits in with the family connections you think you have made.

Added: As the good researchers on this site would say, to prove your connection, get yourself a transcription of a certificate or two.

All the nit-picking about usage of words is coming in one direction,  and it is not coming from me.

Baldwin is a not uncommon family name,   and I don't think John Edward Baldwin's WW2 military papers would name, as his next-of-kin,  his mother who had been dead 30 years ????

John Edward Baldwin was married,  so he would not have been allowed to name his mother as next of kin,  even if he wanted to, and she was still living.    And his mother appears to have been named Alice Maud,  or Maude,  or Maude Elizabeth,  anyway.

Are you suggesting there is an actual link to this Yarrawonga incident ?

There is also a squadron leader Jacky Baldwin in the RAF too,  who was killed in Libya or somewhere.   I did look into him briefly as well,  but I am not going to research all of the tens of thousands of people surnamed Baldwin to do it, or construct family trees for them.

I don't know how you think a 1908 birth certificate or a 1949 death certificate is actually going to provide any definitive connection to a 1911 incident involving a lost child,   whether it is the likely candidate John Edward Baldwin,   or anybody else for that matter.

If you think it will,  please suggest how ?