Author Topic: Help to find death certificate.  (Read 3681 times)

Offline garngad

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Re: Help to find death certificate.
« Reply #9 on: Monday 05 September 16 14:36 BST (UK) »
 :) Thanks again KGarrad just came across that in my search nothing specific though on the incident it looks as though the ship was a cargo vessel and I think my ggg uncle Charles was a wee bit of fly guy as I think he may have took the kings shilling then hopped on the Orcadian where he met his doom.
Henderson
Crawford

Offline groom

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Re: Help to find death certificate.
« Reply #10 on: Monday 05 September 16 17:24 BST (UK) »
Can I ask how, apart from it being the same year of birth, are you certain it is the same man? Charles Crawford isn't an uncommon name. I'm not convinced, as if he was on a cargo ship, why would his army record record him as deceased? I would have thought he'd have been shown as deserted? Surely the fact it is recorded there means he died while in service?

Hopefully one of the knowledgeable people on this thread can clarify what would happen.
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Offline KGarrad

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Re: Help to find death certificate.
« Reply #11 on: Monday 05 September 16 17:28 BST (UK) »
I'll admit to being uneasy about the death I reported :-\
But, it does fit ;D
Although it's not a given - I mentioned it as a possibility.

I think garngad needs to find more evidence (from Allan Line Shipping?) re the Charles who died.
Garrad (Suffolk, Essex, Somerset), Crocker (Somerset), Vanstone (Devon, Jersey), Sims (Wiltshire), Bridger (Kent)

Offline groom

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Re: Help to find death certificate.
« Reply #12 on: Monday 05 September 16 17:56 BST (UK) »
I'll admit to being uneasy about the death I reported :-\
But, it does fit ;D
Although it's not a given - I mentioned it as a possibility.

I think garngad needs to find more evidence (from Allan Line Shipping?) re the Charles who died.

Definitely! I'm afraid it doesn't sound right to me.
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Offline garngad

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Re: Help to find death certificate.
« Reply #13 on: Monday 05 September 16 18:47 BST (UK) »
I to am perplexed but as I am unable to locate his death certificate ( I have looked at dozen's ) and as I know that he came from the dock area of Govan/Partick in Glasgow I am truly clutching at straws I cant understand either why the army papers declare him deceased and yet no cause of death and no certificate also what I can ascertain from his papers is that he signed up at least twice and I was wondering if this was due to lack of work and a way of obtaining monies and is he a full time soldier or as one snip on his papers suggest maybe part time although he has been reprimanded 1903 for breaking out of camp and also overstaying his pass on both accounts he only served 3 days detention so not to severe to suggest he was a deserter but he does disappear around 1908, so any suggestions to where I go from here. PS forgot to add that the Registar General entry has his last address correct but how do I find out the exact details is it just a report from the ship or would there be a full death certificate recorded.
Henderson
Crawford

Offline seaweed

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Re: Help to find death certificate.
« Reply #14 on: Monday 05 September 16 19:28 BST (UK) »
Yes. It seems a little too pat.
What we have is a death reported to the RGSS saying that "A" Charles Crawford, drowned at Montevideo. This is the only information that will be on a Death Certificate. Lot's of  Merchant seamen do not have a Death Cert All that was required by law is that the Captain of a vessel when a person died at sea was to make an entry in the ships Logbook and inform the Registrar General of Shipping and Seamen who then in turn passed this information the the Registrar General of Births, Marriages and Deaths for England and Wales, Scotland, or Ireland.
The only way  to find out if it is your man, is to consult the ships Crew Agreement. This should tell you the man's last address and possibly NOK, age and place of birth together with any previous vessels. It will also have his signature. The voyage where he met his demise commenced on 22/October/1908 and terminated on the 9/Feb/1909. So you will need to look at her first Crew Agreement for 1909. You can obtain for a fee, from here>

https://www.mun.ca/mha/holdings/viewcombinedcrews.php?Official_No=102644

Her Logbook for this period is at TNA Kew. This may give a more expanded view of the circumstance's surrounding his demise but lets prove we have the right man before we go on that course.
A Trimmer worked with the Firemen in the ships boiler room, Trimming the lumps of coal so that they could be shovelled into the furnace, A very hard job, working in temperatures of sometime over  40 Degrees centigrade, 4 hours on, 4 hours off, 24-7
Dim ateb yn well nag ateb anghywir. Nid oes dim yn ddall fel rhai nad ydynt yn dymuno gweld

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Offline garngad

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Re: Help to find death certificate.
« Reply #15 on: Monday 05 September 16 19:29 BST (UK) »
Here is the entry ships name Orcadian place Montevideo (Uruguay) the date of 27th nov 1908 and his last known address also where all his family live and in the surrounding streets very close to the ship yards where his brothers also work. I just cant piece why he would be on it and if he was still a regular if he was a serving soldier on deployment would that not show on his records. Thanks seaweed for the info just as I posted sorry for that looked at the cost of the look up seems a wee bit steep for me but I am certain this is the one and only Charles Crawford there is to many add on's at the minute but if anyone can answer his army papers omission of cause of death that would be sufficient for me.
Henderson
Crawford

Offline groom

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Re: Help to find death certificate.
« Reply #16 on: Monday 05 September 16 19:42 BST (UK) »
So, are you saying that the address on there is where you know your Charles Crawford definitely lived? If so, it does seem likely he is your man.
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Offline garngad

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Re: Help to find death certificate.
« Reply #17 on: Monday 05 September 16 19:47 BST (UK) »
yes groom this is his next of kin address (his brother john my great grandfather)
Henderson
Crawford