Author Topic: George Carlisle - Isle of Thanet Gazette 1963  (Read 4433 times)

Offline Milla697

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George Carlisle - Isle of Thanet Gazette 1963
« on: Thursday 08 September 16 21:07 BST (UK) »
Hi, we are trying to find any information about George Horace Carlisle, who died in April 1963 and was buried in St Johns cemetery, Margate on the 1st May. His death certificate says he left a widow - C.Carlisle but we can find no trace of her or their marriage or her death anywhere. I am hoping there may have been an obituary in the local paper that may give us some more information. Many thanks

Camilla Carlisle

Offline bearkat

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Re: George Carlisle - Isle of Thanet Gazette 1963
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 08 September 16 22:01 BST (UK) »
freeBMD has a George H CARLISLE marrying a Caroline WHITE Birmingham registration district Sep 1931.
Middx - VAUS, ROBERTS, EVERSFIELD, INMAN, STAR, HOLBECK, WYATT, BICKFORD, SMITH, REDWOOD
Hants - SMALL, HAMMERTON, GRIST, FRYER, TRODD, DAGWELL, PARKER, WOODFORD, CROUTEAR, BECK, BENDELL, KEEPING, HARDING, BULL
Kent - BAYLY, BORER, MITCHELL, PLANE, VERNON, FARRANCE, CHAPMAN, MEDHURST, LOMAX, WYATT, IDEN
Devon - TOPE, BICKFORD, FOSTER
YKS - QUIRK, McGUIRE, BENN
Nott/Derbs - SLACK
Herts - BARNES
L'pool- PLUMBE
 All UK census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Milla697

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Re: George Carlisle - Isle of Thanet Gazette 1963
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 08 September 16 22:10 BST (UK) »
Thank you very much for your reply. This could possibly be the widow we are looking for but we have nothing that ties George to that area at all... So we are unsure if this is them or not... I will look into it further though to see whether I can uncover anything else. Thanks again.

Offline Annette7

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Re: George Carlisle - Isle of Thanet Gazette 1963
« Reply #3 on: Friday 09 September 16 02:04 BST (UK) »
I've found something which is a bit confusing in itself and wondering if you knew George Horace Carlisle's occupation?   

According to his death entry he was bc.1893 but there is no birth entry for a George Horace Carlisle around this time BUT I found a George H. Carlisle, Author and Composer, living in Wandsworth who had a birthdate of 11th March 1893 and thought this could possibly be the same man??

If so, on Ancestry I found a tree for a George Horace Carlisle born in Minneapolis, Minnesota on 11th March 1883 (exactly 10 years out but with same birthday) - his passport application of 1907 shows him as a musician, his US WW1 draft card shows him as 'Author and Composer' which ties up with the man above later living in Wandsworth.   The card goes on to say he supported 'Father, Wife, 2 Children and Old Nurse'.  The tree states his wife was named Ana Elsa Hayden  bc.1885 London (the closest I could find was a plain Annie Hayden b.1885 Wandsworth) and that she died ca. 1973 in Buenos Aires, Argentina.   

The tree is short on sources - no date/place of marriage - and only shows one child i.e. Dorothy Stella Georgette Carlisle born 21st September 1916 New York.   From his WW1 Draft card there should be another child but have no idea who that is.   Can't find any of them on US Census I'm afraid.

The daughter Dorothy S G Carlisle appears on 1938 electoral roll living in - yet again, Wandsworth.  She married there too in 1945!

On paper, it looks like the George Horace Carlisle b.11/3/1893 and living in Wandsworth, Author and Composer is the same man who was born that same birthday but actually in 1883, having lost 10 years along the way!

So, if the above information (specifically occupation) ties in with the George Horace Carlisle bc.1893, d.1963 then look like this is your man.

Too many coincidences to not mention it on here but weirdly cannot see any of them in UK passenger lists.

Annette   
Scopes (One-Name Study - Worldwide)
Suffolk - Grist, Knights, Bullenthorpe, Watcham
Scotland - Spence, Horne, Cowan, Moffat
London -  Monk

Don't walk behind me, I may not lead.   Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow.   Just walk beside me and be my friend.

Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Offline Milla697

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Re: George Carlisle - Isle of Thanet Gazette 1963
« Reply #4 on: Friday 09 September 16 12:32 BST (UK) »
Thank you Annette for your very thorough reply. I can confirm that this is definitely the George Horace Carlisle we are looking for. We knew his death certificate was wrong and that he was 80 when he died having been born in 1883. We were not sure at what point he lost 10years so it is very interesting to see him living in Wandsworth with a birthdate of 1893. I have not yet traced him to Wandsworth so this is a very interesting new piece of information. I do know that he had a child in 1909 also called George Horace Carlisle and he was born in Hampstead, and like you we were aware that on his WW1 card it states he had 2 children but I do not know who the other one is.... I do know for sure he had a third child in 1924 and that was my Husbands grandfather - Paul Carlisle, he was given up for adoption as a young child but we have his original birth certificate.

I am also very interested in the other tree you have found on ancestry - Pauls birth certificate states his mother was Albertina Martin and they were indeed married on the 20th September 1909 in Hampsted although we have our suspicions that Albertina was not Pauls birth mother....She returned to New York in 1912 as a first class passenger aboard the RMS Olympic with her 2 year old son 'Horace' and we can find no trace of a return to England following this. I have absolutely no knowledge of Ana Hayden so I am going to look into this further. I first started my research on George about 5 years ago and have not been actively looking for information for a number of years as I had drawn a blank.... With these new leads and information I am going to be spending a lot of time looking again I think! Thank you very very much for your help. Camilla

Offline bearkat

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Middx - VAUS, ROBERTS, EVERSFIELD, INMAN, STAR, HOLBECK, WYATT, BICKFORD, SMITH, REDWOOD
Hants - SMALL, HAMMERTON, GRIST, FRYER, TRODD, DAGWELL, PARKER, WOODFORD, CROUTEAR, BECK, BENDELL, KEEPING, HARDING, BULL
Kent - BAYLY, BORER, MITCHELL, PLANE, VERNON, FARRANCE, CHAPMAN, MEDHURST, LOMAX, WYATT, IDEN
Devon - TOPE, BICKFORD, FOSTER
YKS - QUIRK, McGUIRE, BENN
Nott/Derbs - SLACK
Herts - BARNES
L'pool- PLUMBE
 All UK census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Christine53

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Re: George Carlisle - Isle of Thanet Gazette 1963
« Reply #6 on: Friday 09 September 16 14:31 BST (UK) »
This could be George on the 1900 US census :

Horace Carlisle 56 b Alabama widowed
George Carlisle son 18 b Minnesota( the census form says b 1782 aged 18 ! )PIANIST
Clarise Carlisle 21 dau b Minnesota
Anna Brazwell 22 boarder, widowed

Minneapolis Ward 2 , Hennepin , Minnesota


https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M9SD-62V
Census information  Crown Copyright
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Annette7

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Re: George Carlisle - Isle of Thanet Gazette 1963
« Reply #7 on: Friday 09 September 16 15:12 BST (UK) »
Glad it turned out to be the same man - however, it sounds like he was bit of lad (without meaning any disrespect).   His reason for avoiding WW1 draft - chronic illness and that he supported father, wife, 2 children and an Old Nurse!!

By 1918 - in London - a consular document shows his wife as Albertina and one son named George Carlisle, born London 29/7/1914???   His son George Horace was indeed born in London but according to immigration record was born 6/12/1909??

From the tree on ancestry, it sounds like the daughter was born via another lady (hence no marriage details).   

What a tangled web!

Annette

PS Sending a PM
Scopes (One-Name Study - Worldwide)
Suffolk - Grist, Knights, Bullenthorpe, Watcham
Scotland - Spence, Horne, Cowan, Moffat
London -  Monk

Don't walk behind me, I may not lead.   Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow.   Just walk beside me and be my friend.

Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Milla697

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Re: George Carlisle - Isle of Thanet Gazette 1963
« Reply #8 on: Friday 09 September 16 15:49 BST (UK) »
Thank you Bearcat for your reply - there is a real resemblance between George and my husband! My husband is not coloured but he has always had a very dark complexion and looks permanently tanned all year round - we now know where this comes from! Thank you too to CB53 - I think that that is definitely our George I that census. Annette - no disrespect taken - we have concluded that he was quite a livewire and I think there were probably a number of wives and a number of children... and I'm not sure I will ever completely untangle the web he created when he was alive! But I'm going to try  :) Hence trying to locate his most recent 'wife' as I'm hoping I may find more information from any family of hers that may or may not still be alive today! Oh and I should also add Annette - that George Horace Carlisle was definitely born 1909 as I have a newspaper cutting that announces his birth!