Author Topic: STEVENS family in Whitechapel 1769-90  (Read 1398 times)

Offline Wiggy

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Re: STEVENS family in Whitechapel 1769-90
« Reply #9 on: Saturday 10 September 16 13:04 BST (UK) »
Isaac Green and Frances married in Essendon, but it says Frances was from the parish of Richmond Surrey. 

That's why I went looking down that way.  The first record I found said Whitechapel, Surrey . . .  and not knowing my UK geography intimately, I thought I must be fairly close.  Frances' Birth record says parents Richard and Ann Stevens (but that's just because that's the only one I found.)

At the time I couldn't find any Richard and Ann Stevens in Surrey so I looked wider, but not too wide.
 . . . and when she married of course she was older, wasn't she - could have moved from her birth place.

The marriage is by licence so it looks as if I'd better get that to see what cooks  -   witnesses at the marriage of Frances and Isaac are Susanna Wilkins, Samuel Hill Jane Green and William Green.      :-\  :-\


Just remembered . . .  I did find a death for Ann Stevens - among many - in Surrey . . .  must go back and check that one  in 1776 it was.  but I think I remember it was someone older. 

Will do that tomorrow when I can think more clearly.   :)

Thank you both for your input

p.s.  I did wonder about Angel/Angle Alley but see . . .

Thanks for the link, Bookbox - I too kept getting Jack the Ripper when I tried to find things.
Gaunt, Ransom, McNally, Stanfield, Kimberley. (Tasmania)
Brown, Johnstone, Eskdale, Brand  (Dumfriesshire,  Scotland)
Booth, Bruerton, Deakin, Wilkes, Kimberley
(Warwicks, Staffords)
Gaunt (Yorks)
Percy, Dunning, Hyne, Grigg, Farley (Devon, UK)
Duncan (Fife, Devon), Hugh, Blee (Cornwall)
Green, Mansfield, (Herts)
Cavenaugh, Ransom (Middlesex)
 

 Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.

Offline Millmoor

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Re: STEVENS family in Whitechapel 1769-90
« Reply #10 on: Saturday 10 September 16 13:29 BST (UK) »
Sorry if this puts a spanner in the works,Wiggy but I wonder if the Frances Stevens b 1775 Whitechapel married a William Lickfold in Stepney 23 Jan 1802. Witnesses are Richard Stevens and Sussanah Ann Stevens. There is a death for Francis Lickfold in 1837 (b 1775) in St John Hoxton, Hackney(noting the Francis as opposed to Frances).

On the geography front Whitechapel and Stepney are very much East End locations. Richmond is classified nowadays as South West London.

William
Dent (Haltwhistle and Sacriston), Bell and Jetson (Haltwhistle), Postle, Ward, Longstaff, Purvis, Manners, Parnaby and Hardy (Co. Durham), Kennedy and McRobert (Banffshire), Reid(Bathgate), Watson (Wemyss), Graham (Libberton), Sandilands (Carmichael), Munro (Dingwall)

Offline Wiggy

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Re: STEVENS family in Whitechapel 1769-90
« Reply #11 on: Saturday 10 September 16 13:39 BST (UK) »
William, thank you.     :)

So what you point out may well indicate that I am onto the wrong family as theo others have said -
  OK   Big spanner. 
 
 In 1803  I have my Frances Stevens (From Richmond Surrey) marrying Isaac Green in Essendon Herts - and that's a definite - then my Matthias Gaunt Ancestor marries Frances Green, their daughter in Essendon,  so I am pretty rock solid on that one.

Back to the drawing board tomorrow.  Meantime I will do some of my famous horizontal thinking which has been working really well this past week!!   :D 

Gaunt, Ransom, McNally, Stanfield, Kimberley. (Tasmania)
Brown, Johnstone, Eskdale, Brand  (Dumfriesshire,  Scotland)
Booth, Bruerton, Deakin, Wilkes, Kimberley
(Warwicks, Staffords)
Gaunt (Yorks)
Percy, Dunning, Hyne, Grigg, Farley (Devon, UK)
Duncan (Fife, Devon), Hugh, Blee (Cornwall)
Green, Mansfield, (Herts)
Cavenaugh, Ransom (Middlesex)
 

 Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.


Offline Bookbox

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Re: STEVENS family in Whitechapel 1769-90
« Reply #12 on: Saturday 10 September 16 13:42 BST (UK) »
p.s.  I did wonder about Angel/Angle Alley but see . . .

I wouldn't worry too much about the spelling. Angel Alley is a very common street-name, and the one in Whitechapel is right opposite the church. There's no Angle Alley in Lockie, which I've always found to be quite reliable.

But in view of the Richmond connection, maybe put Whitechapel on one side for the moment?

Perhaps go back (or forwards) a step and look at the names of Isaac and Frances' children, to help identify some possible names for the parents/siblings for your Frances? It may also worth noting that she signed the marriage register as Fanny.

Offline Millmoor

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Re: STEVENS family in Whitechapel 1769-90
« Reply #13 on: Saturday 10 September 16 15:25 BST (UK) »
I note the following from the newspaper archive:

Hertford Mercury 14 March 1857 " On the 19th of Feb at Essendon Mill, Frances, widow of the late Isaac Green, of Essendon Rise, aged  79".

... and 4 July 1837 " On Sunday morning at Essendon Mill, Mr Isaac Green".

These notices would seem to accord with burials in Essendon, giving Isaac a birth year of about 1770 and Frances 1778.

Assuming that this is your Frances the 1841  census would appear to have her showing as born in Hertfordshire while 1851 has her as aged 74, an annuitant born in Hertford, Hertfordshire.

William
Dent (Haltwhistle and Sacriston), Bell and Jetson (Haltwhistle), Postle, Ward, Longstaff, Purvis, Manners, Parnaby and Hardy (Co. Durham), Kennedy and McRobert (Banffshire), Reid(Bathgate), Watson (Wemyss), Graham (Libberton), Sandilands (Carmichael), Munro (Dingwall)

Offline Wiggy

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Re: STEVENS family in Whitechapel 1769-90
« Reply #14 on: Saturday 10 September 16 22:09 BST (UK) »
Thank you both for those thoughts.

Yes, Bookbox,  she does sign as Fanny - I'd noticed that.   :-\  I can tell I am going to have to throw the Richard and Ann marriage and family out and start again!   I wonder what made me go down that path in the first place.  Better get out the old, huge, hard copy (and not always correct) family tree to see if that's why I went that way.   :-\

Thanks for keeping me on track.

If she was born in Herts, why did the marriage show her as from Richmond Surrey?  (Just takling to myself really)   More thinking required.

Good finds William - thank you.   I had both their death years, but not the paper finds which give their ages. 

Isaac and Frances Green's children were, Frances, Martha, Richard, and twins John and Thomas.

(Better nick off to church and endeavour to keep my thoughts off FH)     I'll be back . . . .  Hmmmm someone else said that . . . .  ;) ;)



 :)  Thank you.    :)
Gaunt, Ransom, McNally, Stanfield, Kimberley. (Tasmania)
Brown, Johnstone, Eskdale, Brand  (Dumfriesshire,  Scotland)
Booth, Bruerton, Deakin, Wilkes, Kimberley
(Warwicks, Staffords)
Gaunt (Yorks)
Percy, Dunning, Hyne, Grigg, Farley (Devon, UK)
Duncan (Fife, Devon), Hugh, Blee (Cornwall)
Green, Mansfield, (Herts)
Cavenaugh, Ransom (Middlesex)
 

 Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.

Offline Wiggy

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Re: STEVENS family in Whitechapel 1769-90
« Reply #15 on: Saturday 10 September 16 22:36 BST (UK) »
Quick thought as I walk out the door . . .  more to remind myself . Must find an easy way to British newspapers.  I can do the Aussie papers and do but always forget British papers.

And Isaac/Dave was born 1770 to James Green and Jane (nee Duncalfe) - 6 children  - Hitchin Herts.
Gaunt, Ransom, McNally, Stanfield, Kimberley. (Tasmania)
Brown, Johnstone, Eskdale, Brand  (Dumfriesshire,  Scotland)
Booth, Bruerton, Deakin, Wilkes, Kimberley
(Warwicks, Staffords)
Gaunt (Yorks)
Percy, Dunning, Hyne, Grigg, Farley (Devon, UK)
Duncan (Fife, Devon), Hugh, Blee (Cornwall)
Green, Mansfield, (Herts)
Cavenaugh, Ransom (Middlesex)
 

 Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.

Offline Wiggy

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Re: STEVENS family in Whitechapel 1769-90
« Reply #16 on: Sunday 11 September 16 01:26 BST (UK) »
Sorry to lead you up the garden path . . . .  the family tree  (which only follows the Greens  and is very difficult to read,) says Frances wife of Dave/Isaac was born 1778.  So you are correct William.

She must have gone to Richmond to work  - or something . . . . .

I found that her name was Stevens, and that she was from Richmond, on the marriage.

So I will ditch all those findings from yesterday - ah well, interesting to see all those children from what appears to be an itinerant family. 


I can see why I went away from Herts . . . .  I think our Frances Stevens is a non-entity!     ;)   :-\   

The Green family tree is ho help at all - they don't even have her maiden name.  So how do they have her birth date??
Gaunt, Ransom, McNally, Stanfield, Kimberley. (Tasmania)
Brown, Johnstone, Eskdale, Brand  (Dumfriesshire,  Scotland)
Booth, Bruerton, Deakin, Wilkes, Kimberley
(Warwicks, Staffords)
Gaunt (Yorks)
Percy, Dunning, Hyne, Grigg, Farley (Devon, UK)
Duncan (Fife, Devon), Hugh, Blee (Cornwall)
Green, Mansfield, (Herts)
Cavenaugh, Ransom (Middlesex)
 

 Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.

Offline Millmoor

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Re: STEVENS family in Whitechapel 1769-90
« Reply #17 on: Sunday 11 September 16 07:47 BST (UK) »
They may have the 1778 date from the parish burial. Given that she died in February and the 1851 census has an inferred year of birth of 1777 she might actually have been born in 1877 between February and the census month.

Just in case you have not seen it Isaac Green left a will ( you can access either through Acy or the National Archives).

Re the newspaper archive I find the easiest way is to access through FindMyPast. In this case I simply entered the name Isaac Green and then selected Hertfordshire from the counties list. Sometimes it can be useful to select more than one county and then filter by newspaper. You do have to watch where they have put some titles eg Berwickshire (in Scotland) papers are found in Northumberland! I do have a look at the home page of the newspaper archive itself from time to time and click on recent additions just to see whats new.

William
Dent (Haltwhistle and Sacriston), Bell and Jetson (Haltwhistle), Postle, Ward, Longstaff, Purvis, Manners, Parnaby and Hardy (Co. Durham), Kennedy and McRobert (Banffshire), Reid(Bathgate), Watson (Wemyss), Graham (Libberton), Sandilands (Carmichael), Munro (Dingwall)