Author Topic: HUME, Matilda. Looking for passage from Tasmania to mainland with father James  (Read 4804 times)

Offline majm

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Re: HUME, Matilda. Looking for passage from Tasmania to mainland with father James
« Reply #27 on: Wednesday 21 September 16 11:50 BST (UK) »
I am very confuddled now.

....
George HUME (single) 22, plasterer, Northumberland
Mrs HUME, mother to above.(Ann nee STIRLING ?) m Andrew Hume, 2 Jun 1803 at Eglingham, Northumberland, England

Now the question is - are these your family?

I see this baptism which is possibly your James
FamilySearch
James HUME
Baptised 27 Sep 1815, All Saints, Newcastle-Upon-Tyne, Northumberland, England
Mother:   Anne Hume (so possibly the mother of the HUME family arriving 1839)
FHL Film Number:   1068962, Reference ID:   item 3 p 147


Yes, the Ann Hume ( married to Andrew Hume) listed above is mother to James Hume and David Hume who I am following. She would be Matilda's grandmother. We know from  at least 1863 she was staying with David and his wife Hannah and later married their son, her first cousin, James Hall Hume.
I have evidence that at least for a little while she was living with William Brettell and his wife Jane Ferrier Hume who was also the daughter of David Hume and Hannah Hume. We believe she was sent to live with them while she had an illegitimate pregnancy.

So a lady who first married in 1803 and who from at least 1863 was staying with David and Hannah,  'later married their son, her first cousin James Hall Hume" .....   so errrrr .... when she married James Hall HUME .... how old was she?   Does the marriage certificate give you reason to believe she was that old?  And she was sent away in the 1860s to have a child?

Please un-confuddle me.

JM
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Offline RuleFamilyQld

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Re: HUME, Matilda. Looking for passage from Tasmania to mainland with father James
« Reply #28 on: Wednesday 21 September 16 12:10 BST (UK) »
Oh I'm sorry, I meant Matilda went to live with them.


James and Margaret Hume came to Sydney aboard the Andromache in 1837. ( unsure what happened to Margaret)

James and Hannah Malley were married in Tasmania on 20 November 1844
Matilda was born to James and Hannah Hume in Tasmania on 15 May 1847.
James was born to James and Matilda Hume in Tasmania on 12 June 1850.

at some point here, between 1850 and 1852 the family moved to the mainland by the looks of it.
James junior died on 17 feb 1852 in NSW.
Hannah Hume (mother) died on 21 April 1853 in Strawberry Hills Nsw.

Family stories tell that James couldn't raise mAtilda on his own, and so Matilda went to live with James' brother David Hume and wife Hannah Hume ( née Johnson) who had also come out on the Andromache.

In 1863 Matilda, age 17, gave birth to an illegitimate child, not listing any father, in East Maitland. Hannah Hume ( her Aunty) was listed as a witness and the informant was William Brettell. William was married to Jane Ferrier Hume, daughter of David and Hannah Hume as listed above, and Matilda's cousin.

In 1868 pregnant with her second child, Matilda married her first cousin James Hall Hume.

So I'm trying to map Matilda in those years 1850 ( when they may have returned to the mainland) -1863( when she gave birth in East Maitland)

Essentially I am trying to narrow down if I can find Matilda's Child's (Jane) biological father. James Hall Hume is listed on her death certificate but there is no father listed on her birth certificate. There is quite a bit of family gossip around this.
Hope this has helped with the time line a little.

Offline majm

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Re: HUME, Matilda. Looking for passage from Tasmania to mainland with father James
« Reply #29 on: Wednesday 21 September 16 12:16 BST (UK) »
Agh,  thanks, makes sense to me now. 

Have you sought the baptismal records for Matilda's children born outside of a formal marriage?   You may find that the original parish registers may have a margin note re their father/s.  Clergy are not concerned if the civil statute laws are observed. 

JM
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
Random Acts of Kindness Given Freely are never Worthless for they are Priceless.
Qui scit et non docet.    Qui docet et non vivit.    Qui nescit et non interrogat.   
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Offline RuleFamilyQld

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Re: HUME, Matilda. Looking for passage from Tasmania to mainland with father James
« Reply #30 on: Wednesday 21 September 16 12:17 BST (UK) »
Agh,  thanks, makes sense to me now. 

Have you sought the baptismal records for Matilda's children born outside of a formal marriage?   You may find that the original parish registers may have a margin note re their father/s.  Clergy are not concerned if the civil statute laws are observed. 

JM

Oooo no I haven't, that's a good tip! Thank you

Offline Gilnockie Tower

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Matilda Jane Hume is my Great Great Grandmother.
Her illegitimate daughter Olive Jane Hume born 23rd September 1863 Bellevue near West Maitland is my Great Grand Mother.
The suspected father was a Scotsman named McRae or an aboriginal stockman named Tommy McRae.
I once saw an article in The Maitland Mercury where the Humes brought an aboriginal stockman to court to confess being responsible for Matilda's pregnancy.
I am following a lead that this stockman may be Tommy McRae who worked for Andrew Hume.
http://adb.anu.edu.au/biography/mcrae-tommy-13074
Regards
John

Offline RuleFamilyQld

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Hi, thanks for your reply.
Olive Jane Hume is also my great great grandmother.
He son Mervin is my great grandfather.
His daughter Mona (Joan) is my Nana, her daughter Debbie is my Mum

Me>Debbie>Mona(Joan)>Mervin>Olive

My Aunty has mentioned Tommy Mcrae before, but it is interesting to see more about him, I wasnt aware he was an artist.
I look forward to hearing more. Cheers

Offline sparrett

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I wonder if you have any photographic record of your ancestors.

I think if the father was an indigenous Australian, some characteristics would show in the child and even possibly, in the generation following her.

Sue
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Offline Gilnockie Tower

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Hullo Cousin

I have not as yet found the original Maitland newspaper article re Adam & James Hume in Court. But the following information I found on the Hunter Valley Geneology Forum which no longer exists.

"The only indigenous person I have is a Jane Hume born 1863 to a Matilda Jane Hume, (dau of James Hume and Hannah Malley,) who later married her cousin James Hall Hume. Jane ( who appears to have been of mixed blood) married a James Bowles . There is an article that appeared in the Maitland newspaper a few days after Jane's birth in which both David and James Hall Hume were taken to court for assaulting an aboriginal.  Their defence was they did this to teach him to live up to his obligation to his new daughter and to give both mother and daughter full financial support."

"According to stories, David Hume (1808-1893) and his son James Hall Hume had issues with a man over his refusal (or inability) to provide financial support to Matilda Jane Hume and her baby Jane. And it seems that there is some confusion surrounding the identity of Jane's father. Some assert that it was the Scottish born Donald McCray who immigrated to Australia in 1838 aboard the James Pattison. Others say Jane's father was an unnamed local Aboriginal man." 

"I have searched Trove thoroughly, and articles indicate that David Hume found himself in court twice over some kind of feud with McCray, and that James Hall Hume was in court once for assaulting McCray. Yet, there are no mentions of McCray fathering a child with Matilda Jane Hume." 

"Gilnockie, in one of your earlier posts, you said that your grandmother (Florence Ellweis Curtis Bowles) was the daughter of James Bowles & Olive Jane Hume, and that Olive Jane's parents were James Hall Hume (1840-1923) & Matilda Jane Hume (1847-1932). I'm wondering how many daughters James Hall Hume had. When he was aged 12, his first cousin Matilda Jane Hume was taken in by his parents to be raised as his sister (Matilda's mother and brother had died, and her father was not able to raise her by himself). When Matilda was 16, she gave birth to a daughter Jane. It is unknown whether the father's name was listed as "Hume" on her birth certificate because the father was a Hume (specifically James Hall Hume), or because the baby needed a surname, and Matilda's surname was Hume. Some family trees have attributed this child to James Hall Hume." 

"James Hall Hume eventually married his cousin Matilda when she was aged 21 and pregnant with her daughter Doris Hannah. They had 3 more daughters, Matilda Maud, Ann Dorothy and Sarah Mildred. In 1894, their daughter Ann (aged 20 and unmarried) had a son Adolphus Lindon. Again the father's name was simply documented as "Hume" and the child was raised by James Hall Hume and Matilda Jane. Also in 1894, Sarah Mildred (aged 15 and unmarried) had a daughter Myra May. Again the father's name was simply documented as "Hume" and the child was raised by James Hall Hume and Matilda Jane. Was James Hall Hume responsible for all of these children?"

I am not sure if Tommy McRae (who worked for Andrew Hume) was even involved because the name mentioned above is Donald McCray (McRae).

Regards
John

Offline sparrett

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Well, this is the only item I have found so far which uses the names McCRAE and David HUME together in an  assault incident in 1863.

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/18707476

Sue
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