Who is my McDermott grandfather??

[Surrey Genie]

Thanks for your replies. 

Sorry I didn't expect anyone to research Thomas specifically  - there is no question that he was my grandfather.

For those who need to know:
in 1901 he is Thomas McDermott age 12 in Carrick, son of Bridget Delaney (who is step daughter to William Gallagher, husband of Margaret).
Birth details of Bridget Delaney's children give her name as Keegan.
Bridget Keegan (SPINSTER) married Patrick Delaney in 1893
Bridget Keegan gave birth to Thomas Keegan in Carrick Workhouse on 16/10/1888.
Thomas's army records give Bridget as mother, living at the address Bridget Delaney is at in 1911, and Margaret as grandmother.

All I wanted was if anyone knew how fathers/baptisms/illegitimacy worked in 19th century Ireland.  I know it's not a great state to be in these days, I could only imagine it was a lot worse back then.

[Surrey Genie]

This is one of those areas where Irish practice deviated from English law.

In law, illegitimate children had no fathers. They were "fillius nullis", which means literally a child of nobody. Therefore civil registrations did not show alleged or reputed fathers, and only the mother's surname will appear.

However, Irish social practice, as in so many things, departed from the English legal prescription. The Irish practice - not universal, but the majority of the time in my opinion - was that an illegitimate child was indeed named for the reputed or alleged father.  For this reason, a father's name often does appear on baptismal records - but not always, and remember that a baptismal name is the Christian name, not a surname.

That is very helpful, thanks.     Am I misunderstanding this?   Is the "alleged" father named (surname) anywhere on baptism records?    If so, had the potential father no way of objecting to being named, even if he didn't think he was the father?   Bet that caused some family feuds!      Would it cause a mother to have her child baptised out of the area where she was known - where no questions might be asked?

On Thomas's marriage cert, his father is named as Thomas McDermott.  I didn't read too much into that ..... I have other illegitimate sons who put their own names as "father" on marriage certs.   

[heywood]

Hello again,

In your earlier post, you mention that Bridget's mother was McDermott. Have you now found this to be untrue? Is there no mention of McDermott in the family before Thomas?
You have also referred to being baptised away from the area. What do you mean?
Thomas was born in Carrick on Shannon and lived there 
Are there any workhouse records?
Have you tried church records? Online records do not cover the years around his birth but they may be available elsewhere.

Heywood

[brigidmac]

In 1901 Bridget has reverted to maiden name
My theory that Mr Keegan has died divorced or gone by 1888 so

Thomas was registered under birth father's name ..if she wanted to persue Mr McDermott for child support that would prove useful

The fact that Thomas still using that name in 1901 suggests contact may have been maintained.

Do try looking for affiliation order/bastardy or whatever they are called in Ireland

My Nana's gave birth father's full name and address

Weekly amount was payable til she was 14

[Surrey Genie]

Hello again,

In your earlier post, you mention that Bridget's mother was McDermott. Have you now found this to be untrue? Is there no mention of McDermott in the family before Thomas?
You have also referred to being baptised away from the area. What do you mean?
Thomas was born in Carrick on Shannon and lived there 
Are there any workhouse records?
Have you tried church records? Online records do not cover the years around his birth but they may be available elsewhere.



Heywood

Yes, I had originally assumed that being illegitimate and being Bridget's son, Bridget's maiden name was McDermott.    That is why we couldn't find a birth registration for Thomas - because we were looking for the wrong surname.    There are no other McDermott's connected to the family as far as I know.   I have no bleep-bleep idea who "McDermott" was or where the name has come from.   

Thomas was registered as Keegan.  Sometime between birth and 12 years old, he morphs into Thomas McDermott.

My parents and all my many Irish aunts and uncles are now dead, but they talked long and hard about their Irish-ness.     I've never heard the name Keegan before and I'm sure the family knew nothing about this.

I have contacted parishes in Boyle, (where Bridget settled), Carrick, the Carrick History Society and the main library in Leitrim.  They have all been incredibly helpful, but found nothing at all.   

[Surrey Genie]

In 1901 Bridget has reverted to maiden name
My theory that me Keegan has died or gone by 1888 so

Thomas was registered under birth father's name ..if she wanted to persue him for child support that would prove useful

The fact that Thomas still using that name in 1901 suggests contact may have been maintained.

Do try looking for affiliation order/bastardy or whatever they are called in Ireland

My Nana's gave birth father's full name and address

Weekly amount was payable til she was 14

Bridget was married in 1901  = Bridget Delaney, married to Patrick.
I did consider that she had married a McDermott who had then died, but she marries as Keegan, Spinster.

PLEASE IGNORE MY EARLIER POST- I DIDN'T HAVE THIS INFORMATION THEN SO IT IS NO LONGER RELEVANT.  Thanks.

[heywood]

http://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0152   Only published online to 1883

https://familysearch.org/wiki/en/Kiltoghert_Civil_Parish,_County_Leitrim_Genealogy shows later baptisms from FH library. Are you near such a library to order and view microfilms? Perhaps it won't help but in the old days, I viewed several parishes in this way.

Have you found a birth/ baptism record for Bridget or a marriage record for her mother? I just wonder what Margaret's name was before Gallagher.

[Surrey Genie]

No, I haven't found a birth for Bridget, or a marriage for Margaret.

I'm assuming (probably a mistake!  ) that as Bridget is William Gallagher's stepdaughter, and Thomas names a Margaret as his grandmother on his army records, that Margaret must have been previously married to a Keegan, thus having a daughter Bridget Keegan.   William Gallagher being Margaret's second husband.    The complicated family dynamics are not helping!

Bridget names her father as William Keegan on her marriage registration.   She was born in 1872, so was only 16 when Thomas was born.  I'm surprised she was allowed to keep the baby.

Bridget says she was born in Sligo, but as I've found that many offsprings' birth places on census are the same as the parents' birth places, whether the offspring were actually born there or not, I'm not taking that as gospel.   

[heywood]

William, as father, may have come from William her stepfather.
Presumably, she kept Thomas because she had her mother's support